13 new VENERA xyz trajectories- from the NSSDC

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JackHiggins
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13 new VENERA xyz trajectories- from the NSSDC

Post #1by JackHiggins » 03.08.2003, 18:19

Hey all

The NSSDC have a lot of good stuff on their FTP site, part of which is .trj format elements for various spacecraft. The trj format is laid out like

Code: Select all

 Date | Radial distance from sun | solar ecliptic longitude | solar ecliptin latitude

so... I had to make a converter in MS excel to change this into a celestia-friendly xyz format.

The venera series were 16 spacecraft (only 13 here though...?) sent to venus by the russians, between the early 60's & early 80's, and varied between flyby spacecraft, probe deployment craft, & orbiters.

Because the spacecraft are from the USSR, and from so long ago, these trajectories were originally drawn on paper charts and the NSSDC converted them into this trj format... Needless to say, they aren't very accurate :( but they're still better then nothing...

You can download from the spacecraft page on my site at :arrow: http://homepage.eircom.net/~jackcelestia/

But first check out what the trajectories look like:
Image
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Image

Enjoy! :D

PS I have no idea why the sun is so big in the pic of Venera 8- it wasn't that big when I took the screenshot... :?:
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Post #2by TERRIER » 03.08.2003, 19:25

Good work Jack, I was asking a while ago (when ElPelado requested Magellan) if we could have a Venera or two around Venus and you've come up with 13, so I guess I can't complain!

I have no idea why the sun is so big in the pic of Venera 8- it wasn't that big when I took the screenshot...


Ah yes the summer of '72, the year the sun went nova, I should remember as it's the only year my backs ever peeled. :wink:

Here's a good link to NASA's history of Venera probes
http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/venera.html

regards
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NIGHT L5dds:MOON L4dds:GALXY ON:MAG 15.2-SAP:TIME 1000x:RP=OGL2:10.3FPS

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Post #3by JackHiggins » 03.08.2003, 20:52

TERRIER wrote:Good work Jack, I was asking a while ago (when ElPelado requested Magellan) if we could have a Venera or two around Venus and you've come up with 13, so I guess I can't complain!
Ah yes, but don't forget- you're not just getting 13 trajectories, you're getting 13 highly innacurate trajectories... :D

TERRIER wrote:Ah yes the summer of '72, the year the sun went nova, I should remember as it's the only year my backs ever peeled. :wink:
:lol:

TERRIER wrote:Here's a good link to NASA's history of Venera probes
http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/venera.html

I still find it incredible that back in the late 70's/early 80's they could land a probe on a surface hot enough to melt lead, and still manage to survive for around 90 minutes each...
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Post #4by TERRIER » 03.08.2003, 21:28

Jack

The orbits can't be too far out surely? - I notice that Venera 3 doesn't get anywhere near Venus and that's one of the probes they lost contact with.

I still find it incredible that back in the late 70's/early 80's they could land a probe on a surface hot enough to melt lead, and still manage to survive for around 90 minutes each...


I think the temperature wasn't their main concern - the unexpectedly high atmospheric pressure gave them more of a headache!

regards
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NIGHT L5dds:MOON L4dds:GALXY ON:MAG 15.2-SAP:TIME 1000x:RP=OGL2:10.3FPS

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Post #5by JackHiggins » 03.08.2003, 22:36

TERRIER wrote:The orbits can't be too far out surely? - I notice that Venera 3 doesn't get anywhere near Venus and that's one of the probes they lost contact with.

Heres the damage...
  • Ok so Veneras 1-10 are all fairly accurate (although not so when close to venus or earth), but they're transfer orbits anyway so don't have to be exact...
  • Venera 11's orbit isn't very elliptical...
  • Venera 13's orbit is worse- spacecraft don't travel in straight lines!!
  • Venera 14 is much like number 11
  • Venera 16 was an orbiter, but is about 10 degrees in front of Venus for most of the xyz...

Oh and heres how to do bullet points (Haven't seen anyone use it before, and I know someone will ask)

Code: Select all

[list]
[*]Bulleted text here
[/list]

results in:
  • Bulleted text here
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Post #6by TERRIER » 04.08.2003, 19:54

Jack / or anyone with info.

While visiting various websites for more information on the Venera probes I've noticed something called the 'TYAZHELIY SPUTNIK' keeps appearing in all the descriptions.

It seems to be some kind of launch platform from which the Venera probes/orbiters and many other Russian probes/orbiters (including the luna Zond missions) were launched from whilst in orbit around the Earth. I suppose in a way similar to deployment from a shuttle but done remotely from ground-control without any crew on board.

But I am struggling to find any pictures, or any really detailed info about these launch platforms.

  • What did they look like?
  • Did they custom build one for each mission?
  • What happened to them once the probe was deployed?
  • Are there still any of these Tyazheliy Sputniks in orbit today?

Oh yeh, and it would be nice to have a model if possible!!!

regards
TERRIER
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NIGHT L5dds:MOON L4dds:GALXY ON:MAG 15.2-SAP:TIME 1000x:RP=OGL2:10.3FPS

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Post #7by JackHiggins » 04.08.2003, 20:12

I think when they say "launch platform" they don't mean literally "a platform" they mean they method by which it was launched & transferred to a heliocentric orbit.

The impression that I got was that the Tyazheliy Sputnik was the name of the launch system (like Atlas/Delta/Soyuz/Ariane etc). It would just be like a standard 2 stage booster, with a third stage (The orbiting platform?) which would be similar to an IUS booster used with galileo etc. That third stage would take it out of earth orbit & on to venus/the moon/mars etc.

They weren't very complex but seemed to have been used with everything between Luna 2 & the last veneras (25 year span).

Probably the reason you can't find any pics TERRIER, is because it's just a third stage booster & not anything fancy... :wink:

(DISCLAIMER: everything I said above may be totally incorrect, feel free to correct me... :D )
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Post #8by Jeam Tag » 04.08.2003, 22:49

JackHiggins wrote:I think when they say "launch platform" they don't mean literally "a platform" they mean they method by which it was launched & transferred to a heliocentric orbit.

Hello Jack, all;
' Cork, we have a problem.' :?
Indeed, with the USSR infos: I try to sum up the Venera (Venus) programm, for a little release of my Work-in-Progress french catalogu (added quickly your addons, Spacecrafts page 10 for the moment, :)
(You are a terrible Addonner, you know? :lol:
I try as usual a summary (Readme.text in french) ( See at this address: http://jeam.tag.free.fr/CelestiaAddons.txtVF/Venera-lire.txt)
Someone (french speaker?!) can point to me errors an/or misunderstandings about these missions (what is a probe, a weassel, or Orbiter w lander, and so on...) ??

Jeam,
Hope venera's Venus orbits, even Venuslandingsites, later?... :lol:
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Post #9by JackHiggins » 05.08.2003, 00:02

Cork, we have a problem
:D

Indeed, with the USSR infos: I try to sum up the Venera (Venus) programm, for a little release of my Work-in-Progress french catalogu (added quickly your addons, Spacecrafts page 10 for the moment,
(You are a terrible Addonner, you know?
I try as usual a summary (Readme.text in french) ( See at this address: http://jeam.tag.free.fr/CelestiaAddons. ... a-lire.txt)
Someone (french speaker?!) can point to me errors an/or misunderstandings about these missions (what is a probe, a weassel, or Orbiter w lander, and so on...) ??


That readme file looks good (je ne comprende francais pas) why don't you try going to the nssdc site ( nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov ) and translate the information pages automatically with babelfish etc? Then you can fix any obvious mistakes?
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Post #10by JackHiggins » 05.08.2003, 00:04

Hope venera's Venus orbits, even Venuslandingsites, later?...

Maybe!! But everything that's landed on venus is probably melted or crushed now, so models will be hard to do...
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Post #11by Jeam Tag » 05.08.2003, 13:47

Hi Jack,
JackHiggins wrote:why don't you try going to the nssdc site ( nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov ) ...

Yes! I went there, of course! (in the end of my "Venera-lire.txt', i've mentionned 2 links in french, and the nssdc one) But in different sites, i've found little various descriptions of certain missions (direct wessel or orbiter+lander) as about the V-3 : impacted Venus or lost? So, ive not sure that my summary is perfect, so i posted this request here, hope french readers take a look and can see what is incorrectly translated:).
I think too, if i don't make mistakes, that the dates of each mission can help to return seing it in Celestia!
Thanks again for your addons,
Jeam
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Post #12by JackHiggins » 05.08.2003, 21:06

direct wessel

Do you mean a flyby?
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Post #13by Jeam Tag » 06.08.2003, 09:39

JackHiggins wrote:Do you mean a flyby?

Ahh...my poor english :? I mean that i've read somewhere different explanations of the missions. Someones are discribed as entire vessels witch enter the atmosphere, or orbiters witch are dropping probes into it.
And for the V3: on nssdc site it impacted venus, but on other site i read that it missed venus as V1 and V2! This is not very important, but i try to understand :-)
Jeam
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Post #14by JackHiggins » 06.08.2003, 18:22

Ah ok I understand now!

As far as I know, Venera 3 crash landed on venus, & was the first probe to impact another planet- although some people will probably claim it wasn't...

V1&2 definitely missed venus, but they were flyby craft & were never supposed to impact anyway.
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Post #15by Jeam Tag » 06.08.2003, 18:30

JackHiggins wrote:As far as I know, Venera 3 crash landed on venus, & was the first probe to impact another planet- although some people will probably claim it wasn't...
:lol:
V1&2 definitely missed venus, but they were flyby craft & were never supposed to impact anyway.

Merci bien Jack!
i 'll correct my file. Jeam
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Curious Guest

Re: 13 new VENERA xyz trajectories- from the NSSDC

Post #16by Curious Guest » 12.08.2003, 21:55

[quote="JackHiggins"]Hey all

But first check out what the trajectories look like:
Image
[quote]

HOW DID YOU GET THE RED LINE? IS CELESTIA ABLE TO DRAW YOUR MOVES? :?:

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Post #17by Brendan » 12.08.2003, 22:36

The spacecraft's orbit or any other body's orbit is red when the object is selected.

Brendan

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Post #18by JackHiggins » 12.08.2003, 23:28

Curious Guest wrote:HOW DID YOU GET THE RED LINE? IS CELESTIA ABLE TO DRAW YOUR MOVES?

Your curiosity is appreciated... :wink: You need one of the 1.3.1 pre versions to show orbits like above. The majority of people are still running 1.3.0 which doesn't show orbits as well as above. You can get the latest pre version from celestiaproject.net/celestia/files/ if you want.
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