Add a fixed image in Celestia screen

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ANDREA
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Re: Add a fixed image in Celestia screen

Post #21by ANDREA » 04.09.2008, 14:01

SU(3)xSU(2)xU(1) wrote:I've never been using Vincent's patch, but after reading this thread I will give you a vote too. :)
Paul
Thank you Paul.
If you'll try, you'll enjoy it, Paul. :wink:
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Re: Add a fixed image in Celestia screen

Post #22by chris » 04.09.2008, 19:26

I am not interested in adding new features for cel scripts, but I do want to make celx easier to use. And if Vincent or someone else would like to add new cel commands to match celx capabilities (to the extent that it's possible), I would welcome the help.

I agree that sound would be a very useful feature for educational scripts, but I simply don't have the time to work on it myself. Incorporating Vincent's patch is a possibility, but it would take some time (probably not too much) to adapt it to the 1.6.0 code and implement it on *all* operating systems (Linux and Mac, not just Windows.) It is also necessary to support sound playback through celx, not just cel.

--Chris

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Re: Add a fixed image in Celestia screen

Post #23by Vincent » 05.09.2008, 15:44

chris wrote:I am not interested in adding new features for cel scripts, but I do want to make celx easier to use. And if Vincent or someone else would like to add new cel commands to match celx capabilities (to the extent that it's possible), I would welcome the help.
I'll mind this as soon as I get a chance. Andrea, could you please provide a list of the missing cel commands? That will save me some precious time.

chris wrote:I agree that sound would be a very useful feature for educational scripts, but I simply don't have the time to work on it myself. Incorporating Vincent's patch is a possibility, but it would take some time (probably not too much) to adapt it to the 1.6.0 code and implement it on *all* operating systems (Linux and Mac, not just Windows.) It is also necessary to support sound playback through celx, not just cel.
The patch has been tested succesfully on all OSs. It also includes all the needed celx methods.
It uses an old version of OpenAL though. So, some changes may be needed to make it work with
the latest OpenAL 2.0 version. Of course, I won't get into this if it's not approved unanimously by the devs...
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chris
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Re: Add a fixed image in Celestia screen

Post #24by chris » 05.09.2008, 15:58

Vincent wrote:
chris wrote:I am not interested in adding new features for cel scripts, but I do want to make celx easier to use. And if Vincent or someone else would like to add new cel commands to match celx capabilities (to the extent that it's possible), I would welcome the help.
I'll mind this as soon as I get a chance. Andrea, could you please provide a list of the missing cel commands? That will save me some precious time.

chris wrote:I agree that sound would be a very useful feature for educational scripts, but I simply don't have the time to work on it myself. Incorporating Vincent's patch is a possibility, but it would take some time (probably not too much) to adapt it to the 1.6.0 code and implement it on *all* operating systems (Linux and Mac, not just Windows.) It is also necessary to support sound playback through celx, not just cel.
The patch has been tested succesfully on all OSs. It also includes all the needed celx methods.
It uses an old version of OpenAL though. So, some changes may be needed to make it work with
the latest OpenAL 2.0 version. Of course, I won't get into this if it's not approved unanimously by the devs...

If it works across all OSes, I see no reason not to include it. While there's no need for audio in the base package, the ability to play sounds is such a frequently requested feature for educational scripts that it would be useful to have sound support built-in. How big is OpenAL?

--Chris

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t00fri
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Re: Add a fixed image in Celestia screen

Post #25by t00fri » 05.09.2008, 16:33

Vincent wrote:Of course, I won't get into this if it's not approved unanimously by the devs...
Vincent,

I am not for it, but I won't make a scene ;-) if Chris wants to include sound...

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Re: Add a fixed image in Celestia screen

Post #26by Cham » 05.09.2008, 16:42

To be honest, like Fridger, I'm not for it. This is Chris's choice.
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Re: Add a fixed image in Celestia screen

Post #27by Vincent » 05.09.2008, 16:44

chris wrote:How big is OpenAL?
On Windows, only alut.dll (32 Ko) and OpenAL32.dll (100 Ko) are requested.
These dlls are working with a big majority of audio configs. I've had some bug
reports from two or three users, though. That was fixed using the OpenAL
windows installer: http://connect.creativelabs.com/openal/ ... Items.aspx

On Mac, the OpenAL installer can be also downloaded from http://connect.creativelabs.com/openal/ ... Items.aspx

t00fri wrote:I am not for it, but I won't make a scene ;-) if Chris wants to include sound...
Thanks Fridger. I really don't want to push for this, and besides, I don't use sound anymore in my classes.
But I've had a lot of requests for sound playback from educators in schools and also in planetariums.
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t00fri
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Re: Add a fixed image in Celestia screen

Post #28by t00fri » 05.09.2008, 16:54

Vincent wrote:
t00fri wrote:I am not for it, but I won't make a scene ;-) if Chris wants to include sound...
Thanks Fridger. I really don't want to push for this, and besides, I don't use sound anymore in my classes.
...

Vincent,

a very sensible decision NOT to use sound anymore in your classes (and rather concentrate on the essentials, I suppose ;-) )

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Re: Add a fixed image in Celestia screen

Post #29by ElChristou » 05.09.2008, 20:24

No way to have such features like an addon using the hook system used for lua? Would be great to keep Celestia central app as "pure" as possible than have some extension for more options...
Anyway if not possible I have nothing against the possibility to play sounds...
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Re: Add a fixed image in Celestia screen

Post #30by chris » 05.09.2008, 20:49

ElChristou wrote:No way to have such features like an addon using the hook system used for lua? Would be great to keep Celestia central app as "pure" as possible than have some extension for more options...
Anyway if not possible I have nothing against the possibility to play sounds...

People have made Lua bindings for various sound libraries. It is possible right now to use one of these in plain Celestia 1.5.1. But, I see two advantages to making sound playback a built-in feature of Celestia:
- No extra stuff needs to be installed to use scripts with audio,
- Built-in sound means that it's possible to play audio in cel scripts as well as celx

The main drawback of adding audio support to Celestia is that it complicates the build process slightly, increases the size of the package, and may affect installation. Based on Vincent's report, it doesn't sound like the libraries are very large at all, so I'm not too concerned about bloating the Celestia base package. I am rather concerned about complicating the install process, however; if it's true that we need to run a special installer for OpenAL, then including audio support in Celestia becomes quite problematic.

To clarify my position on audio support: it's not a feature that I personally use, but I can see it's value for people using Celestia in planetarium and museum shows. Over the years, I've seen a lot of requests from such users for the ability to play audio samples from scripts. It's not hard to imagine how a voiceover could enhance a Celestia script written for museum visitors.

--Chris

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Re: Add a fixed image in Celestia screen

Post #31by ANDREA » 05.09.2008, 22:29

Vincent wrote:I'll mind this as soon as I get a chance. Andrea, could you please provide a list of the missing cel commands? That will save me some precious time.
Hello, sorry for late reply, out for a one-day holiday.
First of all many thanks to Chris for his green light to the project, and to Fridger, Cham and Christophe for not being fully opposing, even if disapproving it in Celestia. :)

Vincent, obviously I'll try to help you with a list of celx commands that up to now are missing in cel and that I think would be very appreciated by the cel scripts fan here in Celestia.
But my memory is no more as I would like it to be, so surely I'll need some help by other people, like me interested in cel commands improvements, for other missing commands. 8)

A preliminary list:

play- (for sound-music)
overlay- (for positioning images on the screen at any position)
constellations- (to enable-disable single constellations)
constellationcolor- (to change constellations colors, possibly with “Alpha”)
multiview- (to split the screen horizontally and vertically)
setlinecolor- (to change orbit lines colors, possibly with “Alpha”)
setlabelcolor- - (to change labels colors. possibly with “Alpha”)
arrows, circle, disk, filledsquare markers- (new markers)
setradius- (to change objects radius from cel script)
setgalaxylightgain- (to vary galaxy brightness)
gettrackedobject- (to return the current tracked object for the observer)
renderpath- (to change renderpath e.g. from basic to vertex or OGL2 using cel)
labelsize- (to change font size for particular locs). Possibly applicable to locs in a single directory. I mean the possibility to have, for a self-made blablalocs.ssc locations, the labels as e.g. "sansbold20.txf" instead of "sans12.txf"- This may be very useful for example when there are not so many locs to be shown, so that they don’t clutter even if in a bigger size.
gospeed- (to smooth the "go" speed using cel script. May be it can be added within the existing "goto" and "gotolonglat" command lines, perhaps).

BTW, you surely remember the many cel commands added as a patch by m3ntol here
http://shatters.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12085&highlight=
for which he supplied the code, and Chris said he would have added to the official release.
I probably missed it, but I don’t know if they are already applied to 1.6 r4383, sorry.
Dunno why m3ntol suddenly disappeared from Celestia on March 2008, and I’m very sorry for this, because he is a nice, kind guy and a clever developer, IMHO. :(

Vincent, I don’t know if this is fully updated:
http://shatters.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10936
because your last post is on Jan 2008. 8O
Have you already issued any more celx commands?
Thanks a lot for all what you are doing, very, very, very appreciated. :wink:
Bob, Anders, Dam. Paul, Cham, and all the other Celestians, other missing cel commands?
Opinions?
Thank you for your help, most needed.
Bye

Andrea :D
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BobHegwood
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Re: Add a fixed image in Celestia screen

Post #32by BobHegwood » 06.09.2008, 02:42

ANDREA wrote:Bob, Anders, Dam. Paul, Cham, and all the other Celestians, other missing cel commands?

Don't know if this is what you mean or not, but I would very much like to see the ability
to turn on/off alternate surface textures from within a script. Dunno if it applies here, but is
one thing which would be very useful at least to me.

Thanks, Bob
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Re: Add a fixed image in Celestia screen

Post #33by ANDREA » 06.09.2008, 08:54

BobHegwood wrote:
ANDREA wrote:Bob, Anders, Dam. Paul, Cham, and all the other Celestians, other missing cel commands?
Don't know if this is what you mean or not, but I would very much like to see the ability to turn on/off alternate surface textures from within a script. Dunno if it applies here, but is one thing which would be very useful at least to me. Thanks, Bob
Bob, this is what I mean, and I absolutely agree with you, this would be very useful for a lot of addons. :P
So we can add this (to follow the same style):

setalternate- (to change alternate textures from cel script).
I would like to add another one:
gospeed- (to smooth the "go" speed using cel script. May be it can be added within the existing "goto" and "gotolonglat" command lines, perhaps 8) ).

I added these to my previous message, too.

Thank you very much, Bob, appreciated. :wink:

Anyway, Vincent, I wish to be sure you clearly understand that all this is an educators "dream", so we would be VERY pleased to have all this stuff added to cel commands, but if some or most of them will not be added for any reason, never mind, Celestia is and must be a pleasure for all of us, and first of all for the developers that use so much of their free time to allow Celestia to be enjoyed at its best. :)
So, my friend, decide yourself what to do and take your time, these are only suggestions, not requests. :wink:
Bye

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Fenerit M
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Re: Add a fixed image in Celestia screen

Post #34by Fenerit » 06.09.2008, 09:31

I suggest that all this would remains within the LuaEdu framework, because it has further potentialities which may developed apart, without interfere with the Celestia's code. I'm thinking at historical atlas, for example. Just my two cents.
Never at rest.
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Re: Add a fixed image in Celestia screen

Post #35by Vincent » 06.09.2008, 09:50

ANDREA wrote:
BobHegwood wrote:Don't know if this is what you mean or not, but I would very much like to see the ability to turn on/off alternate surface textures from within a script. Dunno if it applies here, but is one thing which would be very useful at least to me. Thanks, Bob
Bob, this is what I mean, and I absolutely agree with you, this would be very useful for a lot of addons. :P
So we can add this (to follow the same style):

setalternate- (to change alternate textures from cel script).
Andrea, Bob,

The setsurface command is already available in cel scripting:

Code: Select all

select { object "Sol/Earth" }
setsurface { name "BlueMarble" }

Is this what you were asking for?
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Re: Add a fixed image in Celestia screen

Post #36by ANDREA » 06.09.2008, 10:02

Fenerit wrote:I suggest that all this would remains within the LuaEdu framework, because it has further potentialities which may developed apart, without interfere with the Celestia's code. I'm thinking at historical atlas, for example. Just my two cents.
Massimo, personally I don’t agree on your proposal, sorry :cry: , for this reason:
it would not allow the use of such commands from cel scripts, but from the LUA EDU TOOLS Panel only, and during educational shows this would distract the public attention and decrease the show’s “fluidity”. :(

Moreover your solution should have probably another drawback: if these cel commands go in Celestia core code, they will work in the next releases, too, until developers will make a substantial change to Celestia code.
But if it will be released as external application like LUA EDU TOOLS (that I appreciate and use in all my 1.5 shows, BTW :wink: ), probably Vincent should upgrade his LUA TOOLS at every new release, I fear. :(
Am I right?
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Re: Add a fixed image in Celestia screen

Post #37by ANDREA » 06.09.2008, 10:20

Vincent wrote:
ANDREA wrote:Bob, this is what I mean, and I absolutely agree with you, this would be very useful for a lot of addons. :P
So we can add this (to follow the same style):
setalternate- (to change alternate textures from cel script).
Andrea, Bob,
The setsurface command is already available in cel scripting:

Code: Select all

select { object "Sol/Earth" }
setsurface { name "BlueMarble" }

Is this what you were asking for?
Oops, Vincent, I apologize, you are right, it is there. :oops:
From the Cel scripts guide I read:

Allows you to define an alternate surface texture for the currently selected object. An alternate texture must first be defined in the solarsys.ssc file for the object in question.
For example, if you want to create an alternate surface texture for Earth, called "Earth-2", and it's related texture filename is earth2.jpg, you would add the following entry to the solarsys.ssc file, after the closing brace for the ' "Earth" "Sol" ' entry:


Code: Select all

AltSurface "Earth-2" "Sol/Earth"
{
  Texture "earth2.jpg"
}

In this example, "Earth-2" is the name of the alternate texture you will specify in the setsurface command.
Name Defines the name of the alternate texture defined in the AltSurface entry of the solarsys.ssc file, not the name of the texture file itself.
Before using the setsurface command, you must first use the select command to select an object.
To use the built-in Celestia "limit of knowledge" textures, instead of the interpretive ones, use:


Code: Select all

setsurface { name "limit of knowledge" }

Example:

Code: Select all

select { object "Earth" }
setsurface { name "Earth-2" }

Sorry for this duplication, I'm removing "setalternate" from my list in the first post. :wink:
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Vincent
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Re: Add a fixed image in Celestia screen

Post #38by Vincent » 06.09.2008, 10:59

ANDREA wrote:A preliminary list:

constellations- (to enable-disable single constellations)
constellationcolor- (to change constellations colors, possibly with “Alpha”)
Chris commited m3ntol's changes a while ago. So these commands should be available in Celestia 1.5.1.


ANDREA wrote:arrows, circle, disk, filledsquare markers- (new markers)
I've added the new types of marker in celx as well as in cel scripting.
The alpha argument is also available in cel scripting too:

Code: Select all

mark   { object "Sol/Earth" size 15 color [0 1 0] alpha 0.6 symbol "circle" }
Other new accepted strings for symbol are "disk", "filledsquare", "leftarrow", "rightarrow", "downarrow", "uparrow"


ANDREA wrote:renderpath- (to change renderpath e.g. from basic to vertex or OGL2 using cel)
This one already exists too:

Code: Select all

renderpath {path "basic"}  # basic
renderpath {path "multitexture"} # multitexture
renderpath {path "vp"} # OpenGL vertex program
renderpath {path "vp-nv"} # OpenGL vertex program/NVIDIA combiners
renderpath {path "glsl"} # OpenGL 2.0


ANDREA wrote:gospeed- (to smooth the "go" speed using cel script. May be it can be added within the existing "goto" and "gotolonglat" command lines, perhaps).
This can be done changing the value of time in the goto command:

Code: Select all

goto   { time 15 distance 8 }
wait { duration 15 }


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrea, could you please start a new topic with the revised list of cel missing commands?

Also, it would be great if someone could add a cel scripting section to the Celestia wikibook, and keep it up-to-date.
The cel scripting tutorial I added to the French Celestia wikibook a while ago can be a good start:
http://www.ikiru.ch/celestia/wiki/index ... s_.cel_.3F
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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ANDREA
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Re: Add a fixed image in Celestia screen

Post #39by ANDREA » 06.09.2008, 13:13

Vincent wrote:
ANDREA wrote:A preliminary list:
constellations-
constellationcolor
Chris commited m3ntol's changes a while ago. So these commands should be available in Celestia 1.5.1.
Sorry, I missed the information in the forum, and probably other people did the same. 8)

Vincent wrote:
ANDREA wrote:arrows, circle, disk, filledsquare markers-
I've added the new types of marker in celx as well as in cel scripting. The alpha argument is also available in cel scripting too:

Code: Select all

mark   { object "Sol/Earth" size 15 color [0 1 0] alpha 0.6 symbol "circle" }
Other new accepted strings for symbol are "disk", "filledsquare", "leftarrow", "rightarrow", "downarrow", "uparrow"
You are right, they are all there, so much the better, something less to ask you for. :wink:

Vincent wrote:
ANDREA wrote:renderpath
This one already exists too:

Code: Select all

renderpath {path "basic"}  # etc.
Correct, I remember this, but I was (almost!) sure it was for celx only, sorry. :oops:

Vincent wrote:
ANDREA wrote:gospeed-
This can be done changing the value of time in the goto command:

Code: Select all

goto   { time 15 distance 8 }
wait { duration 15 }
Yea, I know this, but I read in the last days about something very similar, added to celx.
If I don’t mistake, it was a kind of “delay” for the command starting action, is it so?
Probably I’m wrong or I misunderstood the topic, sorry. 8O

Vincent wrote:Andrea, could you please start a new topic with the revised list of cel missing commands?
Yes, I’ll do it, and if you agree I’ll name it as
“New cel commands for Celestia 1.6.0” , following your sticky “New celx commands available in Celestia 1.5.0”.

Vincent wrote:Also, it would be great if someone could add a cel scripting section to the Celestia wikibook, and keep it up-to-date. The cel scripting tutorial I added to the French Celestia wikibook a while ago can be a good start:
http://www.ikiru.ch/celestia/wiki/index ... s_.cel_.3F --
Yes, I’ll do it following your French version, very clean and terse, but as everybody knows my English language is not as good as needed (even if I make all my best to test, correct and clean it), so surely I’ll need the help of some English mother-tongue people (Bob, will you give me your precious help, please?) for corrections and better readability. :)
BTW, a long time ago I asked Don Goyette if he could upgrade his very nice and useful
“.CEL Scripting Guide 1.0g”, and he asked me to make it for him, because his health didn’t allow him to do it.
Don, I hope you are better now and you are reading me, if so please confirm this, and I will transfer your precious work on Wiki and upgrade it where needed. :wink:
Thank you, Vincent, Don, Bob, everybody, for all your support and help, very appreciated.
Bye

Andrea :D
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Re: Add a fixed image in Celestia screen

Post #40by ANDREA » 06.09.2008, 14:02

My friends, all the discussion regarding the new .cel commands suggestions has been moved in this new topic :)
“New cel commands for Celestia 1.6.0”
here:
http://shatters.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=12951
Bye there.

Andrea :D
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