FINAL release of new Mercury model DONE!!

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ElChristou
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Post #21by ElChristou » 19.09.2005, 03:13

selden wrote:My personal bias would be to make it historically accurate. Just because others make mistakes doesn't mean that you have to make the same ones!


Right, let's go for final version without flags.
Tx, Bob, Selden...

Bye
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BrainDead
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Post #22by BrainDead » 20.09.2005, 03:07

Sorry El Christou...

One other quibble with the textures. The "United States" texture (as it's
currently applied on the model) does not end up where it should on the
outside of the spacecraft.

The texture you're using for the nose and cowling - as well as the hatch -
makes it impossible to locate the "United States" textures where they should
be placed on Liberty Bell 7. If you look closely at the pictures I referenced
in earlier posts, you'll see that the "United States" should cover the area
where your hatch is now. In fact, the text runs almost immediately from the
viewing port to just over the outer edge of the hatch.

Again, just FYI. Looks as if you'll have to change the B texture so that it's
only applied to the nose and cowling, and then add another texture to cover
the hatch. Please understand... I am NOT complaining here. This is simply
a bit more for your historical accuracy information.

Take care.
Brain-Dead Bob

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Post #23by ElChristou » 20.09.2005, 11:55

BrainDead wrote:Sorry El Christou...

One other quibble with the textures. The "United States" texture (as it's
currently applied on the model) does not end up where it should on the
outside of the spacecraft... ...Please understand... I am NOT complaining here. This is simply a bit more for your historical accuracy information.


No problem, Bob, it's cool.
Yes, you're right...
If you look at the craft from the above, you can see it is completly symetrical; windows and periscope doors are at the oposite, the roll thrust system is symetrical, well all the pattern of the craft is symetrical... so it was logical to have those decals also symetrical... but... nope... (once more all documents on others missions show it as I placed it... LB7 is really appart!!)
So this will be corrected in the final release.
Many Tx for the good feedback.
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Post #24by BrainDead » 20.09.2005, 22:10

ElChristou wrote:If you look at the craft from the above, you can see it is completly symetrical; windows and periscope doors are at the oposite, the roll thrust system is symetrical, well all the pattern of the craft is symetrical... so it was logical to have those decals also symetrical...

Prior to the recovery of the spacecraft, I don't believe that there were
any more accurate pictures available. So, I think that even models of the
Liberty Bell 7 (some old kits that I had long ago if I remember correctly)
were probably incorrect too. It is only now that we can see the thing that we
can determine the correct placement of the details. By the way, the decals
are still symmetrical. It's just that they're in weird places. :wink:

Once again though, thanks for your outstanding work on this model. It's a
real pleasure to view (even as it is) in Celestia.

Take care.
Brain-Dead Bob



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Post #25by ElChristou » 21.09.2005, 20:27

BrainDead wrote:...By the way, the decals
are still symmetrical....


Right, it's just a question of turning a few degrees those decals...
Don't worry, the final release will be OK.
Tx,

Bye
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Post #26by ElChristou » 25.09.2005, 13:28

Hello guys,

All is ready for final release... less the ssc... :x (once more!!)

Another time the problem is with the orientation command... and more presisely when adding the slight rotation to the craft.

Ok; the Jestr trick works perfect to position the model as it is in my 3D soft, but the rotation axis used with the RotationPeriod command is not anymore in the main axis of the craft... Why? I don't know...

Is there a ssc Guru to give me a hand on this?
Here is how the craft should be positionned; the flight is full east slightly south, at LongLat, the craft is (say) 45?° with a slight rotation period (0,09)...
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Why the hell the Edit mode don't work on osX????
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Post #27by ElChristou » 27.09.2005, 13:17

Ok, as nobody seems to care, and as I lost a couple of hours more on that, I will simply change the orientation of the craft in the modeler and it will not be usable with other ssc... too bad... :?
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Post #28by ElChristou » 27.09.2005, 13:21

Hey, I cannot even do that!!! the axis of rotation don't depend on the orientation of the craft...

Well I give up, I will wait for the final release to have time to search for this...

Bye
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bh
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Post #29by bh » 27.09.2005, 14:46

Sorry Chris...Grant was the guy for this sort of thing...but he's left I think.
regards...bh.

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Post #30by ElChristou » 27.09.2005, 16:11

If nobody here is able to do that, then I won't even try to fix it because I'm far from having the math level of some of the present folks...

I think I will release futur models as it, without ssc at all, each one free to do what he want... :?
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Post #31by Dollan » 27.09.2005, 16:14

Hey, I say release them in whatever form you want. Your models are so detailed, I at least am more interested in the visual feast that they represent, rather than any sort of accurate display.

All I can say is, I can't wait for this model (and all of your current projects) to be released!

...John...
"To make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe..."
--Carl Sagan

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Post #32by ElChristou » 27.09.2005, 19:08

ElChristou wrote:...I think I will release futur models as it, without ssc at all, each one free to do what he want... :?


This topic is turning me crazy....
I CANNOT EVEN DO THAT!!!... because I have a special webpage ready for LB7 so I need a ssc to do the link... :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
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Post #33by selden » 27.09.2005, 19:36

For the moment, you might want to consider using the LongLat directive instead of an orbit definition. The capsule won't be moving, but at least it'd be in about the right location.

Another possibility might be to provide another model with it: a flat transparent model that has the trajectory drawn on (or in) it.
Selden

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Post #34by ElChristou » 27.09.2005, 19:59

selden wrote:For the moment, you might want to consider using the LongLat directive instead of an orbit definition. The capsule won't be moving, but at least it'd be in about the right location.

Apparently you haven't download the prerelease... The craft is already in LongLat (at a point at 2'30" from take off) with the slight rotation, what is missing is the correct pointing direction...

selden wrote:Another possibility might be to provide another model with it: a flat transparent model that has the trajectory drawn on (or in) it.


Sorry Selden, I don't get the point for your second idea... in waht this can help?
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Post #35by selden » 27.09.2005, 20:19

ElChristou wrote:
selden wrote:For the moment, you might want to consider using the LongLat directive instead of an orbit definition. The capsule won't be moving, but at least it'd be in about the right location.

Apparently you haven't download the prerelease... The craft is already in LongLat (at a point at 2'30" from take off) with the slight rotation, what is missing is the correct pointing direction...
Sorry, I misunderstood: I thought you also wanted to show it moving along its trajectory.

Have you looked at Grant Hutchison's web page http://www.lepp.cornell.edu/~seb/celestia/hutchison/defined_locations-130.html?

It shows how to calculate the Orientation and RotationOffset so an object is upright when it's placed at a particular location on (or above) the planet's surface. You can use LongLat instead of the rather complicated "invisible object orbit" method to place the object. The "invisible object orbit" had to be used before LongLat was available.

selden wrote:Another possibility might be to provide another model with it: a flat transparent model that has the trajectory drawn on (or in) it.

Sorry Selden, I don't get the point for your second idea... in waht this can help?


I was thinking it of being a way (like your picture above) of showing in Celestia where the Mercury capsule travelled, instead of using an Orbit definition to show it moving.
Selden

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Post #36by ElChristou » 27.09.2005, 20:30

selden wrote:...Have you looked at Grant Hutchison's web page http://www.lepp.cornell.edu/~seb/celestia/hutchison/defined_locations-130.html?

It shows how to calculate the Orientation and RotationOffset so an object is upright when it's placed at a particular location on (or above) the planet's surface. You can use LongLat instead of the rather complicated "invisible object orbit" method to place the object. The "invisible object orbit" had to be used before LongLat was available...


Isn't that similar to the jestr trick?
My problem is not really about the orientation, much because when you change the orientation of the craft, the axis of the RotationPeriod command don't change... so the craft is ok, but rotate in a silly way...
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Post #37by selden » 27.09.2005, 20:33

The Orientation shown in Grant's Web page isn't what I remembered.
The method I've been using is

Code: Select all

Orientation [ 47.54166 0 0 1 ] # Orientate model for latitude (z rotation = 90-latitude)


Does this help?
Selden

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Post #38by sundog » 27.09.2005, 20:42

Hello,

Try this. I added the MeshCenter command.


"Liberty Bell 7" "Sol/Earth"

{
Class "spacecraft"
Mesh "lb7.cmod"
MeshCenter [0.0 0.0 0.003]
Radius 0.003


# approx position at 2'30" from take off before extention of periscope:
LongLat [ -79.8 28.3 70 ]

RotationPeriod 0.09
Obliquity 250
Albedo 0.10
}



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Post #39by ElChristou » 27.09.2005, 21:06

selden wrote:The Orientation shown in Grant's Web page isn't what I remembered.
The method I've been using is

Code: Select all

Orientation [ 47.54166 0 0 1 ] # Orientate model for latitude (z rotation = 90-latitude)

I think this is similar to the jestr trick.
This is ok to place the model as it appear in the 3D soft.
You should download the prerelease and have a look to understand...
I want a slight rotation on the main axis of the craft. For that I have used the RotationPeriod command.
The LongLat is ok.

Here is what I have:

Code: Select all

"Liberty Bell 7" "Sol/Earth"

{
   Class         "spacecraft"
   Mesh         "lb7.cmod"
   Radius         0.003


   # approx position at 2'30" from take off before extention of periscope:
   LongLat         [ -79.8 28.3 70 ]

   RotationPeriod      0.09
   Obliquity      250
   Albedo         0.10
}


Forget Obliquity as I don't know if this can really help.

Now when using your trick, I can add

Code: Select all

Orientation  [ 23,8 1 0 0 ]

to place the craft as I have it in my 3D soft. In this position, with Obliquity off, the slight rotation is correct.

Now if I begin to change the orientation setting to match the position needed, the craft begin to rotate in whatever ways, as apparently the Orientation command don't change the orientation of the axis used by the RotationPeriod command...
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Post #40by Bob Hegwood » 27.09.2005, 22:08

Am I not understanding again? (likely)

However, wouldn't this kind of positioning and El Christou's desire to
position the spacecraft correctly require an XYZ file?

Just curious.
Bob Hegwood
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