Sprites model of Orion-like nebulae (WORK IN PROGRESS)

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Cham M
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Sprites model of Orion-like nebulae (WORK IN PROGRESS)

Post #1by Cham » 01.03.2013, 16:57

I'm starting a project to modelize some Orion-like nebulae, using sprites only.

This is a very difficult project, since there are dozens of parameters to play with, and since there is no global symetry.
Here's a first experiment, with three "shapes" :
ugly.jpg


This is probably a desperate attempt at modelizing irregular nebulae, so I'll try to find another way, much simpler than this method. The parameters are, briefly :

- number of shapes,
- distribution of shapes around a central point,
- global color, transparency and blend style of each shape.

Each shape is a deformed ellipsoid, so there are more parameters :

- size of the ellipsoid (with or without an hole inside, like a shell),
- proportions of the ellipsoid three axes.
- orientation of the ellipsoid axes,
- twisting and bending of the ellipsoid,
- color and transparency of each sprite in the ellipsoid.

Grrr, this is certainly NOT the way to go. :evil:
And I want to sculpt archs, pillars, filaments, etc... :x
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Re: Sprites model of Orion-like nebulae (WORK IN PROGRESS)

Post #2by Cham » 01.03.2013, 23:40

A few videos for my inspiration. This is what I would like to reproduce in Celestia (ideally ! Okay, I'm dreaming here :oops: ) :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acI5coqyg0I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg2r5fzS7aE

EDIT : And this video explains clearly a technique that could be usefull in Celestia ; billboard blurring effect...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaTI2d0tQME
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Re: Sprites model of Orion-like nebulae (WORK IN PROGRESS)

Post #3by Goofy » 02.03.2013, 00:14

Hi Martin.
Have you done some experiment with sprites for comets coma?
Give a look here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=wskTz0HI7oQ#t=426s
Nice, but...just a dream in Celestia?
Bye

Goofy :D
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Re: Sprites model of Orion-like nebulae (WORK IN PROGRESS)

Post #4by Cham » 02.03.2013, 01:08

Yes, I already tried to model some comets before. However, it doesn't work for a simple reason : the comet tail changes over time. I can't simulate this with a simple sprite model attached to a comet.

Comets need to be rendered from Celestia's core engine.
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Re: Sprites model of Orion-like nebulae (WORK IN PROGRESS)

Post #5by Fenerit » 02.03.2013, 01:11

Cham wrote:A few videos for my inspiration. This is what I would like to reproduce in Celestia (ideally ! Okay, I'm dreaming here :oops: ) :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acI5coqyg0I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg2r5fzS7aE

EDIT : And this video explains clearly a technique that could be usefull in Celestia ; billboard blurring effect...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaTI2d0tQME

In the second video the nebula seem a sculpted terrain. Can you make sprites terrains? Terrains' vertices can be spriteized like 3D vertex alone, then adding further gasoids clouds.
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Re: Sprites model of Orion-like nebulae (WORK IN PROGRESS)

Post #6by Goofy » 02.03.2013, 01:41

Cham wrote:A few videos for my inspiration.
EDIT : And this video explains clearly a technique that could be usefull in Celestia ; billboard blurring effect...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaTI2d0tQME
Hi.
I didn't know that tutorial, but I tried something similar with AKIM's Red Nebula cmod model.
Results were terrible. In the image you can see 18 Red Nebula models, rotated 20 degrees each other.
But I'm sure that with sprites things will be very different.
Bye

Goofy :D
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Re: Sprites model of Orion-like nebulae (WORK IN PROGRESS)

Post #7by Cham » 13.03.2013, 01:14

I'm inspired from the supernova remnant models I created recently. I wrote a mathematica code to generate some asymetrical nebulae, using random walks. Here's a first (ugly !) experiment :
concept1.jpg

concept2.jpg


Oh boy ! :roll:

At least, the Mathematica code is working ! :|

EDIT : Hmm, some progress...
concept3.jpg
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Re: Sprites model of Orion-like nebulae (WORK IN PROGRESS)

Post #8by Cham » 13.03.2013, 01:32

I just got some unexpected nice results. This is highly experimental, but I feel I'm on the right track :)
Orion1.jpg

Orion2.jpg

I'll have to put more stars in that stellar nursery.

The volumetric effect in 3D is already very nice !
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Re: Sprites model of Orion-like nebulae (WORK IN PROGRESS)

Post #9by Cham » 13.03.2013, 01:50

I'm pretty impressed by the previous nebula model.
Here's a small video showing it in action in Celestia.

http://fsgregs.startlogic.com/Public_Fi ... Nebula.mov

This model was just a proof of concept experiment. I'm now very confident to get better results during the next week.

EDIT : Here's a second video, for another model, with the same parameters.
The nebula has a lenght of several light-years.

http://fsgregs.startlogic.com/Public_Fi ... ebula2.mov
Last edited by Cham on 14.03.2013, 12:40, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sprites model of Orion-like nebulae (WORK IN PROGRESS)

Post #10by Cham » 13.03.2013, 02:32

Space postcard...

Same model as in the second video above.
Neb0.jpg

Neb1.jpg

Neb2.jpg


The main nebula has a lenght of 80 LY
This is just a proof of concept.
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Re: Sprites model of Orion-like nebulae (WORK IN PROGRESS)

Post #11by Cham » 14.03.2013, 13:43

I'm really impressed by the last prototype. The Mathematica code which generates irregular nebulae is very fast and versatile.
I should be able to produce lots of beautifull models with it. The only "problem" is the high number of parameters to play with.
The very high number of irregular shapes, pillars and colors combinations may give a choice problem ! :?

I'm showing here some parts of the nebula prototype (click the thumbnails to get a large view).

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

I used the model around the central galactic black hole with all its stars moving around it. So here are some pictures of it :

Image

Image

Image

Image

Here's the model for you to play with, placed at the location of M1 (the Crab nebula). Of course, this is just to show the prototype.

Take note that this small test-addon also uses a bunch of fictious stars from an old addon from Rassilon (where is that guy, by the way !?).
If you already have them, you may have duplicates. So beware !

Download link :
http://fsgregs.startlogic.com/Public_Fi ... laTest.zip (319KB)
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Re: Sprites model of Orion-like nebulae (WORK IN PROGRESS)

Post #12by Cham » 14.03.2013, 21:30

Just to let ppl know that I'll continue the description on CM :

http://forum.celestialmatters.org/viewtopic.php?t=458
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Re: Sprites model of Orion-like nebulae (WORK IN PROGRESS)

Post #13by Cham » 16.03.2013, 00:49

I'm starting to populate the M31 galaxy with Orion-like nebulae :
galacticNeb.jpg

Each nebula will be populated with many stars... :)
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Re: Sprites model of Orion-like nebulae (WORK IN PROGRESS)

Post #14by Cham » 16.03.2013, 13:54

Some views of two new models. I finally decided to place all these nebulae inside the M33 spiral galaxy.
nebA.jpg

nebB.jpg

nebC.jpg
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Re: Sprites model of Orion-like nebulae (WORK IN PROGRESS)

Post #15by Cham » 16.03.2013, 14:16

Here's M33 with its 10 nebulae. Moving inside is really great. We truly feel the vastness of space in a galaxy.
M33a.jpg

M33b.jpg


Now, time to add the stars inside the nebulae...
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Re: Sprites model of Orion-like nebulae (WORK IN PROGRESS)

Post #16by Cham » 16.03.2013, 23:03

And here we go. All 10 nebulae are now populated with hundreds of stars :)

Some views of the 10 models with their daugthers :

10 models, in order :
Image

Same order, but different views :
Image

Same order, with a zoom :
Image

Random views...
Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Really, pictures can't do justice to the 3D shapes and imersion in Celestia.
So a quick and dirty 2 min video to show some of the models :

http://fsgregs.startlogic.com/Public_Fi ... es/M33.mov
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Re: Sprites model of Orion-like nebulae (WORK IN PROGRESS)

Post #17by PlutonianEmpire » 17.03.2013, 01:18

Very nice!

One thing I was wondering; have you considered using very dark or black sprites to use as the portions of the nebulae where the dust absorbs or blocks light? I know a lot of the dark shapes and figures seen in numerous nebulae pictures in astronomy is dust blocking light from behind it.

Granted, I dunno if that idea would work or not (probably the latter), but just food for thought, I guess. :)
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Re: Sprites model of Orion-like nebulae (WORK IN PROGRESS)

Post #18by Cham » 17.03.2013, 02:04

PlutonianEmpire wrote:I know a lot of the dark shapes and figures seen in numerous nebulae pictures in astronomy is dust blocking light from behind it.

Unfortunately, this is not possible with sprites (or only in a very weak way), since there isn't any depth sorting among sprites. It would be much too heavy on CPU/GPU. However, the black background do give the impression of some dark/cold matter within the nebulae, depending on the point of view. On a picture, we can't say if a dark part is really cold matter or just a hole through the nebula.

However, using appropriate rendering options within the CMOD files, we could give the impression of some **semi-opaque** dark parts.
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Re: Sprites model of Orion-like nebulae (WORK IN PROGRESS)

Post #19by t00fri » 17.03.2013, 11:17

Sorry guys, the Ibiblio server is still down, meaning that neither the Motherlode nor CelestialMatters is accessible! No idea what is going on there. Unfortunately, we cannot influence this.

In the meantime...

Here is a simple blend (pixel addition) of Cham's Neb5.jpg above with my celestia.Sci rendering of the SMC irregular galaxy by means of a 3D Perlin Noise pattern. Such type of hybrid renderings are very easy with OpenGL...

[Click on image by all means!]
smc_blend.jpg


In the upper right of the picture, Cham's Neb5 structure is dominating, while in the lower left, my Perlin noise rendering wins. So by direct comparison you may judge yourself what you think looks more realistic for extended nebulous structures. Or also, whether a blend of the two seems best. Both Chams sprite rendering and my Perlin noise rendering are genuine 3D structures.


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Re: Sprites model of Orion-like nebulae (WORK IN PROGRESS)

Post #20by Cham » 17.03.2013, 13:48

Indeed, the weakness of my sprite technic is the large fog-like clouds. I can do large blurry clouds, but the sprites are ugly when they are very large, and their superposition with the rest have a large impact on the frame rate.

Large sprites have artifacts visible inside (circular rings) which are very annoying. We have the same rendering problem in the standard galactic blobs (gray sprites) as seen at close range or using the zoom feature of Celestia.
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