List of galactic clusters and voids

Post requests, images, descriptions and reports about work in progress here.
Avatar
Topic author
Cham M
Posts: 4323
Joined: 14.01.2004
Age: 54
With us: 15 years 1 month
Location: Montreal

List of galactic clusters and voids

Post #1by Cham » 23.08.2008, 15:07

COSMO-CELESTIA ! ( :wink: to Fridger)

It may be interesting to add yet another layer to Celestia, according to these pages (or better, Fridger ?) :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Void_(astronomy)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_galaxy_clusters
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_superclusters
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galaxy_filament

Labels of super-clusters, voids and filaments.

A project for the near future. Maybe...
Last edited by Cham on 23.08.2008, 16:39, edited 2 times in total.
"Well! I've often seen a cat without a grin", thought Alice; "but a grin without a cat! It's the most curious thing I ever saw in all my life!"

ElChristou
Posts: 3776
Joined: 04.02.2005
With us: 14 years

Re: List of galactic clusters and voids

Post #2by ElChristou » 23.08.2008, 15:20

Would be really nice to have a model using blobs appearing once you reach a certain distance from the MW, showing the super clusters like this map:
Image
Image

Avatar
Topic author
Cham M
Posts: 4323
Joined: 14.01.2004
Age: 54
With us: 15 years 1 month
Location: Montreal

Re: List of galactic clusters and voids

Post #3by Cham » 23.08.2008, 15:25

Chris L, what kind of labels should I use for this ? I'm not sure "Nebula" 3ds labels would be a good thing, in this case (because of orientation dependence). Maybe a new kind of location label, at the galactic scale ?
"Well! I've often seen a cat without a grin", thought Alice; "but a grin without a cat! It's the most curious thing I ever saw in all my life!"

Avatar
Topic author
Cham M
Posts: 4323
Joined: 14.01.2004
Age: 54
With us: 15 years 1 month
Location: Montreal

Re: List of galactic clusters and voids

Post #4by Cham » 23.08.2008, 16:51

It may be very hard to get the coordinates of labels on this picture :

Image

I'll need some help for this.

Also, the labels should be looking like our constellations labels (with a different color).
"Well! I've often seen a cat without a grin", thought Alice; "but a grin without a cat! It's the most curious thing I ever saw in all my life!"

ElChristou
Posts: 3776
Joined: 04.02.2005
With us: 14 years

Re: List of galactic clusters and voids

Post #5by ElChristou » 23.08.2008, 17:08

Cham wrote:It may be very hard to get the coordinates of labels on this picture :...

It's not possible, you need some kind of database...
Image

chris
Site Admin
Posts: 4211
Joined: 28.01.2002
With us: 17 years
Location: Seattle, Washington, USA

Re: List of galactic clusters and voids

Post #6by chris » 23.08.2008, 17:36

Cham wrote:Chris L, what kind of labels should I use for this ? I'm not sure "Nebula" 3ds labels would be a good thing, in this case (because of orientation dependence). Maybe a new kind of location label, at the galactic scale ?

I think that what we need for this is support for markers that aren't attached to any particular object.

--Chris

Avatar
Topic author
Cham M
Posts: 4323
Joined: 14.01.2004
Age: 54
With us: 15 years 1 month
Location: Montreal

Re: List of galactic clusters and voids

Post #7by Cham » 23.08.2008, 17:40

chris wrote:
Cham wrote:Chris L, what kind of labels should I use for this ? I'm not sure "Nebula" 3ds labels would be a good thing, in this case (because of orientation dependence). Maybe a new kind of location label, at the galactic scale ?

I think that what we need for this is support for markers that aren't attached to any particular object.

--Chris

Markers could do it, but then we need markers WITHOUT any symbol attached to them. Only text with custom size (to have something similar to the constellation labels).
"Well! I've often seen a cat without a grin", thought Alice; "but a grin without a cat! It's the most curious thing I ever saw in all my life!"

Avatar
Topic author
Cham M
Posts: 4323
Joined: 14.01.2004
Age: 54
With us: 15 years 1 month
Location: Montreal

Re: List of galactic clusters and voids

Post #8by Cham » 24.08.2008, 15:56

This paper gives the coordinates (galactic ?) of 27 "void" centers, and their size :

http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi- ... etype=.pdf

See the table at page 313.

I could use the DATA to built something for "COSMO"-Celestia. However, the distances are given in [tex]h^{-1} Mpc[/tex]. What value should I use for [tex]h[/tex] (Fridger ?).
"Well! I've often seen a cat without a grin", thought Alice; "but a grin without a cat! It's the most curious thing I ever saw in all my life!"

Avatar
t00fri
Posts: 8772
Joined: 29.03.2002
Age: 16
With us: 16 years 10 months
Location: Hamburg, Germany

Re: List of galactic clusters and voids

Post #9by t00fri » 24.08.2008, 16:01

Cham wrote:This paper gives the coordinates (galactic ?) of 27 "void" centers, and their size :

http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi- ... etype=.pdf

See the table at page 313.

I could use the DATA to built something for "COSMO"-Celestia. However, the distances are given in [tex]h^{-1} Mpc[/tex]. What value should I use for [tex]h[/tex] (Fridger ?).

is it [tex]h \mbox{ or } \overline{h}[/tex]??

In the latter case [tex]\overline{h} = 1[/tex], of course ;-)

Fridger
Image

Avatar
Topic author
Cham M
Posts: 4323
Joined: 14.01.2004
Age: 54
With us: 15 years 1 month
Location: Montreal

Re: List of galactic clusters and voids

Post #10by Cham » 24.08.2008, 16:06

t00fri wrote:is it [tex]h \mbox{ or } \overline{h}[/tex]??

In the latter case [tex]\overline{h} = 1[/tex], of course ;-)

Please Fridger, look at the table on page 313. It is [tex]h[/tex]. I'm guessing [tex]h=H_{0}/100[/tex], but then I'm not sure to understand the units since [tex]h[/tex] is dimensionless while [tex]H_{0}[/tex] isn't. Is it 100 = 100 km/sec per Mpc ?
"Well! I've often seen a cat without a grin", thought Alice; "but a grin without a cat! It's the most curious thing I ever saw in all my life!"

ajtribick
Posts: 1780
Joined: 11.08.2003
With us: 15 years 6 months
Location: Switzerland

Re: List of galactic clusters and voids

Post #11by ajtribick » 24.08.2008, 16:16

At the bottom of the first page on the paper and going over to the next page...
h is the Hubble constant in units of 100 km s^-1 Mpc^-1

Avatar
Topic author
Cham M
Posts: 4323
Joined: 14.01.2004
Age: 54
With us: 15 years 1 month
Location: Montreal

Re: List of galactic clusters and voids

Post #12by Cham » 24.08.2008, 16:25

Here's the table in question :
table.gif


Guys, do you confirm that the coordinates are in the galactic system ?
"Well! I've often seen a cat without a grin", thought Alice; "but a grin without a cat! It's the most curious thing I ever saw in all my life!"

Avatar
t00fri
Posts: 8772
Joined: 29.03.2002
Age: 16
With us: 16 years 10 months
Location: Hamburg, Germany

Re: List of galactic clusters and voids

Post #13by t00fri » 24.08.2008, 16:28

ajtribick wrote:At the bottom of the first page on the paper and going over to the next page...
h is the Hubble constant in units of 100 km s^-1 Mpc^-1

Sorry I am kind of busy and have answered already many questions of Cham via email today and in the recent past. That's why I did not look at that table and rather replied with a joke (It will never happen again ;-) ).

Indeed little h is a popular abreviation for the Hubble constant normalized to the above reference value ;-)

Fridger
Image

Avatar
Topic author
Cham M
Posts: 4323
Joined: 14.01.2004
Age: 54
With us: 15 years 1 month
Location: Montreal

Re: List of galactic clusters and voids

Post #14by Cham » 24.08.2008, 17:13

Here's the "voids" table converted to text. It's ready to use in a spreadsheet to convert the data in something Celestia could recognize.

Code: Select all

No   alpha   delta   Dist      Diam      comment
         (Mpc / h)   (Mpc / h)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1   19.0   -57.1   134      88     
2   28.2   -12.3   207      96     
3   34.8   -61.9   216      72     
4   36.6   -33.5   241      86     
5   37.8   -36.1   129      92     
6   46.0   -21.4   236      72     
7   62.0   -8.0   248      100     
8   71.2   -38.3   201      76     
9   121.7   -1.5   96      112      SLV
10   130.0   49.3   246      144      BS82
11   140.4   10.5   160      92     
12   146.9   27.4   227      106     
13   153.1   -11.4   246      94     
14   159.9   1.2   167      68     
15   161.6   -32.2   241      98     
16   167.4   22.8   222      74     
17   186.9   -15.6   216      94     
18   196.8   9.5   119      102     
19   204.8   35.7   119      108     
20   214.6   13.6   216      78      Bootes void
21   216.7   56.5   143      116     
22   219.8   57.9   246      96     
23   220.2   33.9   219      72     
24   256.1   -4.8   61      104      NLV
25   353.0   -59.4   198      74     
26   356.6   22.2   246      80     
27   358.9   -33.1   241      70     


(Why is the "code" format in the forum forgets about all the tabulations, in the table ? Geez this is annoying !)
"Well! I've often seen a cat without a grin", thought Alice; "but a grin without a cat! It's the most curious thing I ever saw in all my life!"

ElChristou
Posts: 3776
Joined: 04.02.2005
With us: 14 years

Re: List of galactic clusters and voids

Post #15by ElChristou » 24.08.2008, 18:52

Cham wrote:Here's the "voids" table converted to text. It's ready to use in a spreadsheet to convert the data in something Celestia could recognize.

Without asking for labels immediately, can you try to display a translucent sphere for each voids to see their positions in Celestia?
Image

Avatar
Topic author
Cham M
Posts: 4323
Joined: 14.01.2004
Age: 54
With us: 15 years 1 month
Location: Montreal

Re: List of galactic clusters and voids

Post #16by Cham » 25.08.2008, 01:58

ElChristou wrote:
Cham wrote:Here's the "voids" table converted to text. It's ready to use in a spreadsheet to convert the data in something Celestia could recognize.

Without asking for labels immediately, can you try to display a translucent sphere for each voids to see their positions in Celestia?

This is exactly what I had in mind for a first test layer. However, what I think should be best is a simple label (constellation like) placed at the center of the void (and also at the center of the super-cluster for that case). The label should rotate around its center, instead of the lower-left corner, exactly like what the constellation labels are doing.

By the way, we should have something similar for the Milky Way arms.
"Well! I've often seen a cat without a grin", thought Alice; "but a grin without a cat! It's the most curious thing I ever saw in all my life!"

Avatar
Topic author
Cham M
Posts: 4323
Joined: 14.01.2004
Age: 54
With us: 15 years 1 month
Location: Montreal

Re: List of galactic clusters and voids

Post #17by Cham » 26.08.2008, 20:03

Note to myself : Voids catalogue in this paper :

http://arxiv.org/pdf/astro-ph/9503044

Catalogue of super-clusters here :
http://www.aai.ee/~einasto/sclcat12.pdf

Related site :
http://spider.ipac.caltech.edu/staff/ja ... apers/LSS/

Voids list with coordinates :
http://www.atlasoftheuniverse.com/nearsc.html

A paper which defines clearly the various distance definitions used in cosmology :
http://www.physics.rutgers.edu/grad/608 ... tances.pdf

And some related page on distances :
http://www.atlasoftheuniverse.com/redshift.html
Last edited by Cham on 05.09.2008, 13:47, edited 2 times in total.
"Well! I've often seen a cat without a grin", thought Alice; "but a grin without a cat! It's the most curious thing I ever saw in all my life!"

Avatar
Topic author
Cham M
Posts: 4323
Joined: 14.01.2004
Age: 54
With us: 15 years 1 month
Location: Montreal

Re: List of galactic clusters and voids

Post #18by Cham » 29.08.2008, 01:20

Here's a distribution of galactic clusters in Celestia (up to 100 MLY from Sol). Sadly, there are lots of distance discrepancies with all the databases I tested and Fridger's deepsky database. The match is extremely crude in 3D :
clusters1.jpg

clusters2.jpg

The Milky Way is the small green dot in the middle of the pictures.

Another view :
clusters3.jpg


In the cases of voids, it's terrible. No match at all with Celestia's deepsky.dsc, and yet I'm pretty sure I didn't made any error. :cry:
"Well! I've often seen a cat without a grin", thought Alice; "but a grin without a cat! It's the most curious thing I ever saw in all my life!"

ElChristou
Posts: 3776
Joined: 04.02.2005
With us: 14 years

Re: List of galactic clusters and voids

Post #19by ElChristou » 29.08.2008, 07:15

Any zip to test?
Image

Avatar
t00fri
Posts: 8772
Joined: 29.03.2002
Age: 16
With us: 16 years 10 months
Location: Hamburg, Germany

Re: List of galactic clusters and voids

Post #20by t00fri » 29.08.2008, 09:03

There are numerous things that should be tested with your results:

  • on cosmological scales there are different inequivalent definitions of /distance/! Are you sure always the same definition has been used? Are the Hubble constants compatible?
  • What are the measurement institutions of your data on galactic clusters and voids? Sloan DSS?
  • possible bugs. What kind of cross checks were made in your calculations that underline their correctness?

Fridger
Image


Return to “Add-on development”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 13 guests