Evil Dr Ganymede wrote:I've decided to take the alternative path from Evil Dr Ganymede, and pursue learning how to 'develop' Celestia for myself: starting with installing Linux, compiling under Linux, learning about OOP and C++, hopefully followed by OpenGL, all this GTK, qt, and KDE stuff, maybe even get hold of Octave and learn how to use it to generate PNGs, etc.
Good luck with it, but my experiences with Linux have been "this is the most complex, unfriendly, nightmarish OS I have ever had the misfortune to see". I used it only when I had to, never because I wanted to.
(Despite other intentions of mine ) I have to inject here, before your grossly lacking information and your prejudice about the state of LINUX scare away "brave" people like Spiff!
To set up any Linux system and work with the system on a /superficial/ level about equivalent to normal Windows click operations, really takes very little nowadays.
Installation of the better known Linux systems proceeds just with a few clicks, and any peripheral devices are automatically recognized and drivers are loaded. Since I work /both/ with Linux and Windows in parallel I think I can judge and compare pretty well. All this works with ease.
Networking is still much more advanced with Linux while Laptop-typical features like ACPI, Wireless Lan etc are better still in Windows. They are working satisfactorily, too, with /recent/ 2.6 Linux kernels.
Building a highly complex program like Celestia either in Windows or under Linux is a different type of challenge!
Conceptionally it's easy, but it is complicated in practice, since Celestia uses >50 (!!) external libraries. The usual problems of newbie Celestia compilers almost exclusively trace back to lacking libs or lacking header files of those libs! The main point being that the standard configuration scripts running in LINUX before the compile step starts, typically tend to /misinterpret/ lacking headers or libraries. Consequently the unexperienced user faces /misleading/ diagnostic messages!
Spiff's current configure problems are probably a typical example of this!
What is great about UNIX and specifically LINUX systems is their intelligent shells that allow highly sophisticated scripts being executed. Learning UNIX scripting language is a comparatively minor challenge, but it pays off tremendously! By means of such scripts, one may automatize an amazing variety of tasks.
My 'virtualtex' script for cutting VT's is a typical example.
By means of such shell scripts I may also update and rebuild Celestia from CVS (even in a totally alcoholized state ) in about 30-60 seconds! That's the time it takes for me to incorporate any CVS changes!
So please forgive me if this persistent complaining about compiling source code makes me smile occasionally...
All these benefits of LINUX/UNIX can also be exploited under Windows via a Cygwin/RedHat Linux installation.
That's what I use since > 2years on my Laptop, for example. I.e. I profit from the better Media and ACPI & WLAN support by Windows as well as all the scripting and networking benefits of Cygwin LINUX.
EDG wrote:Do you think that other people have time to do this?!
This "time argument" I simply have heard too often!
Please take into account that "KnowHow" may be a tremendous time saver .
E.g. (see above) Upgrading & rebuilding of Celestia from CVS only takes 30-60 seconds for me.
Why do I know these things? Because I never resisted to learn. It's as simple as that. I vigorously deny that this requires particular talents or even particular intelligence! It's just a bit of self-discipline and setting priorities...
Also from your extended "visibility" in this and other forums, I gather that your spare time is not all that short...
Last not least, I have a geat wife and daughter and my life certainly does not "evolve around Celestia"
EDG wrote:To contribute anything to Celestia on the Windows side, I would have to learn C++, OpenGL (and find a development environment for both) and basically have it consume all my time (assuming that I could actually get my head around those languages in the first place). I am just not prepared to do that, and neither am I able to do it.
Clearly it is entirely unnecessary to learn C++, or even OpenGL just to build Celestia from CVS. Nevertheless people with e.g. some elementary knowledge of Fortran could easily make simple changes to the code and recompile....