models not appearing in Celestia

General discussion about Celestia that doesn't fit into other forums.
Topic author
andylong
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Joined: 25.09.2005
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models not appearing in Celestia

Post #1by andylong » 25.09.2005, 20:05

Hi all. I've just installed Cellestia 1.3.2 on Fedora Core 4, which I downloaded from the Yum repository. I#m running on an Acer Aspire 1501LMi, which is an Athlon 64 3000+, with 1GB of Ram, and an ATI Mobility Radeon 9600. I have the proprietary ATI driver installed for 3D acceleration.

WHen I start Celestia, I can see all planetary or stellar objects, but no models appear. For instance, I select 'IIS' from the 'find object' menu, and 'Goto'. The dislay tracks to where I suppose it's supposed to be, but there is no image in the field of view. This behavious is repeated whenI try to look at Huygens, or cassini, or the Death Star (I DO get to see Endor, so I think I've got that extra installed properly)

Any ideas what I've got misconfigured, please?

Regards, Andy

BrainDead
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Post #2by BrainDead » 25.09.2005, 21:53

Just quick suggestions...

Make certain that the associated textures are in the appropriate directories.

Make certain that your graphics card can handle the size of the textures
used with the model.

Make sure your OpenGL capabilities can display the textures correctly.

Check the SSC files with the models to make certain that things are located
where you think they should be located.

Hope that helps, but someone more knowledgable than myself will
probably be along any minute now. Selden? :wink:
Brain-Dead Bob

Windows XP-SP2, 256Meg 1024x768 Resolution
Intel Celeron 1400 MHz CPU
Intel 82815 Graphics Controller
OpenGL Version: 1.1.2 - Build 4.13.01.3196
Celestia 1.4.1

Topic author
andylong
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Re: Models not appearing in Celestia

Post #3by andylong » 25.09.2005, 23:25

Bob - Thanks for the rapid response. In reply...

1. No textures for the modfels, surely? The textures for the planets appear properly, so they seem to be in the right place.

2. The .3DS files for the default spacecraft seem to be in the right place too... at least, they're in the 'models' folder, and the 'spacecraft.ssc' file only refers to them by terminal name -- which appears to be right.

3. My main concerns are about the configuration of the ATI card in X.Org. Here's an extract from a 'dmesg' on my latest boot up:-
======================================================================
[andy@nike ~]$ dmesg | grep ATI
fglrx: module license 'Proprietary. (C) 2002 - ATI Technologies, Starnberg, GERMANY' taints kernel.
[andy@nike ~]$ dmesg | grep fglrx
fglrx: module license 'Proprietary. (C) 2002 - ATI Technologies, Starnberg, GERMANY' taints kernel.
[fglrx] Maximum main memory to use for locked dma buffers: 928 MBytes.
[fglrx] module loaded - fglrx 8.16.20 [Aug 16 2005] on minor 0
[fglrx] Internal AGP support requested, but kernel AGP support active.
[fglrx] Have to use kernel AGP support to avoid conflicts.
[fglrx] Kernel AGP support doesn't provide agplock functionality.
[fglrx] AGP detected, AgpState = 0x1f000a1b (hardware caps of chipset)
[fglrx] AGP enabled, AgpCommand = 0x1f000312 (selected caps)
[fglrx] free AGP = 256126976
[fglrx] max AGP = 256126976
[fglrx] free LFB = 47165440
[fglrx] max LFB = 47165440
[fglrx] free Inv = 0
[fglrx] max Inv = 0
[fglrx] total Inv = 0
[fglrx] total TIM = 0
[fglrx] total FB = 0
[fglrx] total AGP = 65536
[andy@nike ~]$ dmesg | grep AGP
agpgart: Detected AGP bridge 0
agpgart: AGP aperture is 256M @ 0xe0000000
[fglrx] Internal AGP support requested, but kernel AGP support active.
[fglrx] Have to use kernel AGP support to avoid conflicts.
[fglrx] Kernel AGP support doesn't provide agplock functionality.
[fglrx] AGP detected, AgpState = 0x1f000a1b (hardware caps of chipset)
agpgart: Found an AGP 3.5 compliant device at 0000:00:00.0.
agpgart: Putting AGP V3 device at 0000:00:00.0 into 8x mode
agpgart: Putting AGP V3 device at 0000:01:00.0 into 8x mode
[fglrx] AGP enabled, AgpCommand = 0x1f000312 (selected caps)
[fglrx] free AGP = 256126976
[fglrx] max AGP = 256126976
[fglrx] total AGP = 65536
======================================================================
Video card seems to be detecting it and configuring it OK. However, it IS a recent addition to my configuration (I ws running with Framebuffer until just recently when I decided to start using the lappy for the 3D stuff I bought if for in the furst place!

So I guess I need a Linux geek to help me with the open GL stuff.

Thanks, Andy

Bob Hegwood
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Post #4by Bob Hegwood » 26.09.2005, 23:30

Well, since Selden hasn't come along yet...

You should always download the latest drivers for your graphics card,
and it could be that the models themselves aren't pointing to the proper
directories. Again, I don't know beans about most of these things, but
surely someone else here can help you...

Try also reading some of the FAQ's associated with modeling and/or
textures.

Sorry, I know it ain't much help, but that's the best I can do. (Especially
since I'm a Windows XP geek with no graphics card whatsoever).
:roll:

Take care.
Bob Hegwood
Windows XP-SP2, 256Meg 1024x768 Resolution
Intel Celeron 1400 MHz CPU
Intel 82815 Graphics Controller
OpenGL Version: 1.1.2 - Build 4.13.01.3196
Celestia 1.4.0 Pre6 FT1

Topic author
andylong
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Re: Latest drivers

Post #5by andylong » 27.09.2005, 18:06

According to the ATI web site I've got the latest driver installed.

:(

Andy

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selden
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Post #6by selden » 27.09.2005, 19:19

Sorry, I'm not a Linux user, either.

[edit]If it were a problem related to your graphics card, you wouldn't be able to see planets, either. [/edit]

However, models usually don't show up because they aren't in the directory where Celestia is looking for them, or the files have the wrong protection or ownership. The /models/ directory should be in the same directory with Celestia's /data/, /fonts/, /shaders/ and /textures/ directories.

You should be able to look at Celestia's "console log" by typing a ~ (tilde)
Often, but not always, it'll give a hint about what's not working.

Sorry I can't help more.
Selden

Topic author
andylong
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Seldon's suggestions

Post #7by andylong » 27.09.2005, 22:27

models is in the usual place. This is the permissions on all the files in the directory:-
===================================================================
[andy@nike ~]$ ls -las /usr/share/celestia
total 140
8 drwxr-xr-x 8 root root 4096 Aug 25 18:18 .
16 drwxr-xr-x 278 root root 12288 Sep 25 17:55 ..
20 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 12651 Jul 27 2004 celestia.cfg
8 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2740 Apr 29 2004 celestia.png
8 drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Aug 25 18:18 data
12 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5630 Sep 22 2002 demo.cel
8 drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 4096 Sep 25 20:45 extras
8 drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Aug 25 18:18 fonts
8 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3724 Mar 12 2002 guide.cel
8 drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Aug 25 18:18 models
8 drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Aug 25 18:18 shaders
20 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 16297 Jun 19 2004 start.cel
8 drwxr-xr-x 5 root root 4096 Aug 25 18:18 textures
[andy@nike ~]$
=======================================================================
When I tried focusing in on Hubble, I did the '~' thing, and it said itwas loading from 'modlels/hubble.3ds', but no progress..... (Everything works on my G4 Cube with Mac Tiger). I'm gonna have to revisit my ATI Driver installation :(

Regards, Andy

Topic author
andylong
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Trying ISS...

Post #8by andylong » 28.09.2005, 16:53

Tried focusing on the ISS then doing the '~'... It said it loaded the meshes from the 'models' directory and the textures from 'textures/medres', but still nothing. :( As I approach there seems to be a dot on the screen, but this vanishes and the model does not appear.

The ATI drivers seems to be a red herring... I haven't got them properly installed (somehow) because fglrxinfo says that I'm still using the Mesa drivers.

Andy

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Post #9by Brendan » 30.09.2005, 19:52

Do the ISS model filename and the filename specified in the ssc file have the same cases of letters?

Topic author
andylong
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case of names...

Post #10by andylong » 01.10.2005, 07:42

Yes, the case is the same from the file 'data/spacecraft.ssc' and 'models/iss.3ds'. This has hapepned with both an RPM install, and a source build, and it doesn't matter if the object I'm going to is from the default installatioin or an added extra.

Andy

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Post #11by ScyBladeghost » 26.10.2005, 02:31

I havent browsed the other subject forums before but from reading some of this I found you must have .3ds as an extension of your model and not just its name. or else the model won't render.

example: mesh"farted"
example: mesh"farted.3ds"

see the difference...

then the model registers I found, hope that offers some dev light.

JV laters Gaters......


May all yer games be fun and all your art be great. :{'.'.'.'.'.'.'

Topic author
andylong
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.3d2 suffices on filenames

Post #12by andylong » 26.10.2005, 05:49

Yup, got '.3ds' on the end of the 'mesh' lines....

I an't emphasise enough that this has happened with vanilla installations of Celestia, not on any extras that I've installed.

My current situation is that I'm procrastinating over rebuiliding my kernel, so I can have a go at getting the ATI drivers to work. At the moment Celestia wil; be using the Mesa drivers (software OpenGL), which are successfully rendering worlds and stars.

Regards, Andy

Boux
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Post #13by Boux » 26.10.2005, 08:45

Hi andylong,
Your driver is not properly installed, or at least the 3d acceleration part.
Apparently, you have got stale Mesa libs in the way.
How does glxgears run, and how many fps are you getting?

Topic author
andylong
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Re: glxears

Post #14by andylong » 26.10.2005, 16:13

Sorry about the short message :(

Starts off with a default windo size and runs at between 90-95 fps. As I increase the sizeof the windo, the rate drops through 48 and 25 to between 14 and 16 fps

Regards, Andy

Boux
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Post #15by Boux » 26.10.2005, 19:59

This low fps figure clearly shows that you have no hardware rendering.
With 3d acceleration enabled, you should get a figure in the thousands fps.
Now, I am an nvidia guy so I can't help more, sorry.
One thing I am sure of, though. The driver is not installed as it should be and your system is falling back to mesa emulation.

samhain
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Post #16by samhain » 30.10.2005, 23:49

I am having the exact same problem as Andylong on Celestia 1.3.2. I'm using Ubuntu with an Nvidia Geforce 4. I've used the apt-get packages to install my nvidia drivers and to install Celestia.

The main problem is not being able to view spacecraft. Planets show up without a problem. When I choose a spacecraft, I see the name of it and a very small dot. The dot then disappears.

Andylong, have you figured out the problem yet? I find it interesting that we are both using different Linux distros and different video cards, but are experiencing the same problem.

Topic author
andylong
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Spacecraft models not appearing

Post #17by andylong » 31.10.2005, 06:25

Consensus at t he moment is that the Mesa driivers aren't up to handling the 3D operations and we need to get the proprietary drivers working. I've downloaded and installed the ATI driver and it's being picked up for the simple stuff, but not for the 3D work :(

The ATI driver page says that iit has to be used instead of the standard 3D module (agpgart) which means that I have to reconfigure my Kernel to build AGPGART and all the supported chipset support as modules instead of as buillt-ins. I've done that (although it';s caused sound and PCCARD support to blow up on my AMD64 laptop - still to be resolved) and somehow the AGPGART module is still being loaded - I have to dind some way to suppress that. I'll be attacking that soon by playing with MODPROBE.CONF.

I'll post progress later

Regards, Andy Long

Topic author
andylong
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progress report on activating 3D acce;leration on ATI driver

Post #18by andylong » 02.11.2005, 16:58

The short answer is... none

Attempted to suppress loading of AGPGART by putting a dummy entry into modprobe.conf as follows:-

install aglgart echo "modprobe: loading of AGPGART suppressed"

didn't work, stopped the fglrx module from loading with lots of 'missing symbols' lines. All attampts to hide the module have similar results.

more googling to be done, I think.

Anyone got any ides/pointers?

Regards, Andy

samhain
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Post #19by samhain » 02.11.2005, 19:27

I've decided that i'm going to install a some different distros and find out which one works. I've tried Ubuntu and Debian Sarge. I used the apt-get Nvidia-glx drivers for both. Trying to update the driver to the latest version has been a pain, so I don't know if that works. i'll try again later if I have to. I will try Redhat next and then Mandrake.

Has anyone else used the Nvidia-glx drivers with Ubuntu or Debian? I have been able to run Flightgear on the computer, so I know the drivers are functioning properly.

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Post #20by steffens » 03.11.2005, 08:40

I'm using Debian Sarge with nvidia drivers without problems. On the other hand, my Celestia is the FT 1.1 kde, compiled by myself.
Sorry, but I have no idea what the problem might be in your case.

steffens


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