Celestia 1.3.2 strange behaviour on the drop-downs

General discussion about Celestia that doesn't fit into other forums.
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Ptarmigan
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Celestia 1.3.2 strange behaviour on the drop-downs

Post #1by Ptarmigan » 25.08.2004, 00:01

Thanks for the new 1.3.2 release Chris, looks good.
Not sure yet if this is my old age (!), my old machine :(, my WinME, or what ,,,

when I go to Render > View Options there is a flicker of the dialog and then it vanishes. If I minimise then restore the Celestia window the dialog box is there but freezes when I click OK or Cancel, needing a minimise-restore cycle to get rid of it.

However, now the really odd thing, if I have two or more views split vert or horiz then all is normal ! I can tick nightlights/orbits/whatevr and they (and the dialog) perform normally. If I delete/go back to single view it then misbehaves again :(

Also, just discovered it when typing up this info, when I go to look at my OpenGL version to report it, (Renderer: GeForce2 GTS/AGP/SSE ver 1.2.1) that dropdown also only behaves in split window (freezes in single window)

Any ideas where I look or what I try next ?
Not critical, just curious !
thanks,
Malcolm

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Post #2by Ptarmigan » 25.08.2004, 00:34

Update:
A quick look back at pre1, pre2, pre3, pre5 and pre9 all seem to be OK. (I'm not sure which of those were full versions and which were an exe only)

pre11 (exe only download) placed in either the pre9 folder and/or in the new 1.3.2 folder shows the same odd behaviour.
as the new one.

Malcolm.

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selden
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Post #3by selden » 25.08.2004, 00:44

Malcolm,

Which version of the Nvidia drivers do you have installed?

The driver version number should be availble in the Advanced window of the Display Properties menu. (right-mouse-button-click on the display backdrop)

Have you tried installing Nvidia's most recent graphics drivers?

As best I can tell (never having used a GF2 card) the v61.76 drivers should work for you and, I think, should be reported by Celestia as being v1.5.1, not v1.2.

The ME drivers are available at http://www.nvidia.com/object/win9x_61.76
Selden

Guest

Post #4by Guest » 25.08.2004, 01:09

selden wrote:Malcolm,The driver version number should be availble in the Advanced window of the Display Properties menu. (right-mouse-button-click on the display backdrop)
NVIDIAGeForce2GTS/AGP/3.15.00.12.31/memory32Mb and a whole host of dlls and vxds all version 4.12.01.0667
Have you tried installing Nvidia's most recent graphics drivers?
hahaheeheee, demented squawk ! No not yet, not till something is really really broke ! (see below)
The ME drivers are available at http://www.nvidia.com/object/win9x_61.76
Yes, I've been there previously, got put of the enterprise by this statement in their Hints&Tips "Before installing new drivers make sure you uninstall all NVIDIA display drivers from the Windows Control Panel. " but nothing about where to keep the old ones or waht to do if the new install don't'ackle. No not yet m'thinks.
Well, not till I discover why I was OK up to pre9, and what changed twixt it and both pre11 and full1.3.2
( I think perhaps my update xxed in the post with your reply to my first bit maybe?)
I cant see anything on my system resembling the v61.76 nomenclature/format,
In Run>Dxdiag I can only see the 4.12.01.0667 stuff

back to scratching my head !
Malcolm

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Post #5by Ptarmigan » 25.08.2004, 01:18

Drat! Became a guest again all of a sudden, so cant edit the above to say :----
the only thing I can see that has changed between pre9 and pre11/1.3.2full is that there are now two pretty little icons against the entries in rhe dropdown for View Options and Locations ( locations is also screwed I now discover!)

It isn't a serious problem, I hardly ever use that dropdown, which is why I did not spot that my pre11 was broke till triggered into it by my looking round the 1.3.2full you see.
Still not sure if Ive done somethig stupid, or if this is something for the bug forum ??
Probably me being braindead since noone else is reporting it :(
I'll just have to pay my dues and join Bob's braindead club :-)

Malcolm

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selden
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Post #6by selden » 25.08.2004, 01:47

Malcolm,

Usually the driver version number that people use is in the last 4 digits of the number you quote. For example, on my WinXP system, the full version number is 6.14.10.6176. Let's just say that your drivers are ancient and have many known bugs :( I couldn't swear that any of those bugs are responsible for the menu problems you see, but I suspect they might be.

When you "deinstall drivers" the old versions are deleted. gone. poof. You don't "put them" anywhere.

However, with ME you're supposed to be able to set a "restore point" before you change (deinstall old / install new) device drivers, so that if the new version screws up you can restore your system's drivers to their previous versions. In other words, setting a restore point makes copies of all the drivers. Naturally, this needs quite a bit of disk space. I've never done that, though, so I don't know how well it works.

I use Symantec's Ghost utility (it runs standalone from floppy) to backup my entire system disk to a compressed image file on another disk drive. Then when things screw up, I know I can restore the system to exactly what it used to be without wondering what strange pieces of the new buggy software might be still lying around and messing things up. I've lost track of how many times I've done such a restore. :(

The Nvidia site also includes links to older versions of their drivers which you could install if the newest ones really don't work.

I hope these comments help a little.
Selden

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Post #7by Boux » 25.08.2004, 08:40

Ptarmigan,
As Selden wrote, your drivers seem to be very old and obsolete.
If I understand well, they are Detonators 06.67
These were published by Nvidia in December 2000!
They are at least a dozen generations late.
06.67 are DirectX 7 drivers. The latest drivers are DirectX 9.
The opengl driver seems to be 1.2 and likely some newer GL extensions are missing.
You should definitely upgrade to more recent drivers.
WinME is also, I am sorry to say this, humm, terrible and is unstable and unpredictable by design. It's a kind of hybrid operating system that Microsoft threw at the home-users market to kill Win98 and fill the gap before Windows XP is available.
Please do yourself a favor and upgrade your drivers, first. By doing this only, you will see a gain in speed, stability and quality, not only in Celestia but also in all graphic applications.

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Ptarmigan
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Post #8by Ptarmigan » 25.08.2004, 08:40

selden wrote:Usually the driver version number that people use is in the last 4 digits of the number you quote.
Good morning Selden, that's interesting, so mine would be 06.67 in that other format then. Well that is summat i've learned :)
When you "deinstall drivers" the old versions are deleted. gone. poof. You don't "put them" anywhere.
That's what I was(would) be afraid of !
with ME you're supposed to be able to set a "restore point"
That is true, I have used it a long time ago when installing new applications software, but I've not done any system/drivers/guts type upgrades
I've lost track of how many times I've done such a restore. :(
As an aside - well , I hear people "going on" about WinME and its problems of crashing etc. but I've not had any problems and not one reinstall either since it was new in 2001. Ok, ok, I suppose y'all will say I've not tasked it hard enough :)

I hope these comments help a little.
Yes, thank you, very much so, especially that pointer to nVidia, it confirms I was looking in the right place, after all, for when I do decide to upgrade things ( probably after I get a second, new, spare machine!)

Thanks, time for breakfast, will look at it all again this evening.
Thanks for your time and thoughts,
Malcolm.

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Ptarmigan
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Post #9by Ptarmigan » 25.08.2004, 08:53

Boux wrote:Ptarmigan,
As Selden wrote, your drivers seem to be very old and obsolete.
If I understand well, they are Detonators 06.67
These were published by Nvidia in December 2000!
Hi Boux, yes that would be about right, ** I bought the machine in early 2001 (see other post just now, which it looks like we were both typing at the same time !!)
06.67 are DirectX 7 drivers.
Dxdiag reports DirectX 8 but the rest of your summary seems to be spot on. Something must have updated my directx at some time !
WinME is also, I am sorry to say this, humm, terrible and is unstable and unpredictable
!!!!!!!!! ho! see my other post as well, must be the way other people treat it ! my wife's machine also has WinME with no probs, no crashes, no lost work, no reinstalls ! (and it is a horrid slow celeron thing, even older than my box). But yes, my next machine will be a play-thing and will have Linux on it :-))

Thanks for your thoughts, I will upgrade, sometime soon, I promise :-))

(edit) PS ** and my first Celestia was 1.1.4 if I remember correctly :)

Malcolm.

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Post #10by Boux » 25.08.2004, 19:39

Ptarmigan wrote:
Dxdiag reports DirectX 8 but the rest of your summary seems to be spot on. Something must have updated my directx at some time !
Well, Dxdiag reports the version of Microsoft DirectX intalled on your computer, NOT the version of DirectX supported by the Nvidia drivers.
Ptarmigan wrote:
my wife's machine also has WinME with no probs, no crashes, no lost work, no reinstalls !

Word processing, mail treading and web surfing kind of activities do not stress the system at all.
Celestia is now a very demanding application if you are willing to enjoy all the eyecandy.

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Post #11by Ptarmigan » 25.08.2004, 21:13

Boux wrote:Celestia is now a very demanding application if you are willing to enjoy all the eyecandy.
I know that, but, we were not talking about eyecandy. If you go back to the top of the thread, you will see that I was commenting on the basic user interface, that does not have to be rocket science to maintain backward compatibility !

Something changed between pre9 and pre11.
Is there no point in commenting on anything if one does not have the very latest high-end computals !?

It may well be that 'it' (the change) showed up something in my old drivers, but there are even older machines out there ! Do we need always to have the very latest 'everything' to even begin to run Celestia at all, let alone comment upon it ? I'm not commenting on ring shadows, speculars, normals or whatever the latest nick-nack eyecandy goodie.
Perhaps whatever 'it' was might be something simple that if the developers are aware of an incompatibility then they will be able to fix it ? maybe it was the format of the new icons ( for example) I dunno do I ? I didnt even know if it was worth troubling the BugsForum with it, I certainly didnt intend it to be an interminable predictable endles yetanother excuse for a Microsoft bashing excersize either, nor do you have any idea what my wife uses her machine for !

As I said earlier, it is of little consequence to me, I dont often use those dropdowns and when I need to I have already found a workaround. If no one else is interested in it then fine, I'm outta here and probably wil not comment on anything else I find.

G'night, my fingers hertz,
Malcolm.


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