Who wants to kill the forum?

General discussion about Celestia that doesn't fit into other forums.
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jogad
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Who wants to kill the forum?

Post #1by jogad » 07.04.2013, 21:11

Last news:
Cham is banned and olyv=argelesmer=lodgy is still here.

This is the absolute victory of the trolls of this forum with the help of the administrators.

It is really unbearable and this is my last post in this forum.

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t00fri
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Re: Who wants to kill the forum?

Post #2by t00fri » 07.04.2013, 22:02

Jogad,

I completely agree with you! Of course I also find it strange that because of some emotional formalities now the "good" guys are effectively getting out of here while the familiar "multiple identity" ;-) can continue unharmed.

All I can add is that you are always VERY welcome at Celestial Matters! You will find there plenty of well-known serious and active Celestians (including Cham) ...

Fridger
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Marco Klunder
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Re: Who wants to kill the forum?

Post #3by Marco Klunder » 08.04.2013, 19:40

:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

After having Celestia Development in hibernation for a long time now, we were lucky to still have some very worthfull developers on this forum, helping, producing and developing a variety of addons, which interested a brought part of the forum members.

Now we let them go or even ban them, having nothing done about their complaints since already a long period of time.
It looks like the moderation is hybernating too, but I fear the Celestia development on this forum will also come to a hibernation, despite an isolated group of members, fulfilling their scifi prophesy...

It has been discussed many times on this forum, many threads are locked, even members were banned, yes something has done.
But structually however, nothing happened, despite previous year a small action regarding the Celestia pictures.
In the mean time we see the same issue return in the Addon releases and Addon development threads.
Each day new pictures, new work in progress, megapolygons done in a few days time... and there we have the next project again.
And when the forum asks for a good model of Curiosity, none of this "top-talented" modelers is able to produce one... :?

I've nothing against scifi on this forum and there are indeed respected members doing a very good job here, that I appreciate too.

But the problem here is something else:
Overwhelming the forum with the same stuff over and over again, troll behaviour, unauthorized/disputable usage of material, and giving this forum the image many members are not comfortable with. It typically leads to irritation and to a situation we are in now (and it happened before)...
Marco Klunder
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Celestia161 / SVN + Lua Edu Tools v1.2 Beta9 and Celestia160-ED

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Hungry4info
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Re: Who wants to kill the forum?

Post #4by Hungry4info » 09.04.2013, 03:34

Marco Klunder wrote:And when the forum asks for a good model of Curiosity, none of this "top-talented" modelers is able to produce one...
Unlike the low SNR users that crank out endless Star Trek models, the top-talented users on this board are probably busy with their own lives or too disenfranchised with this board to put more effort into it.

I completely agree about the moderation being wholly insufficient. This board has all the symptoms of atrophy and I've made appeals to selden about it but have not received a reply.
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PlutonianEmpire M
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Re: Who wants to kill the forum?

Post #5by PlutonianEmpire » 09.04.2013, 06:52

Totally speculating here, but this seems to have begun a little after the developer(s) shifted their attention to Cosmographia, and I suspect the nonexistent moderation here was probably to drive off the Celestia users still dedicated to Celestia.

Again, pure speculation (and paranoia, admittedly :lol: ) on my part.

(Isn't cosmographia shareware or something? I hate those with a fiery passion that burns hotter than O0-Ia0 stars. :evil: And phbb really needs spoiler tags. Every other forum host have them now. )
Terraformed Pluto: Now with New Horizons maps! :D

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t00fri
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Re: Who wants to kill the forum?

Post #6by t00fri » 09.04.2013, 11:06

PlutonianEmpire wrote:Totally speculating here, but this seems to have begun a little after the developer(s) shifted their attention to Cosmographia, and I suspect the nonexistent moderation here was probably to drive off the Celestia users still dedicated to Celestia.

Again, pure speculation (and paranoia, admittedly :lol: ) on my part.

(Isn't cosmographia shareware or something? I hate those with a fiery passion that burns hotter than O0-Ia0 stars. :evil: And phbb really needs spoiler tags. Every other forum host have them now. )

Your speculation about Cosmographia is incorrect. Cosmographia was developed ONLY by Chris Laurel. It is semi commercial in the sense that --on the one hand-- interested users can download the source code and compile it themselves for free. On the other hand is is sold for some $$ at the Apple store.
It seems that ChrisL has also largely stopped his Cosmographia development as of last fall. Since then he commits little changes only every few months to his code repository.

I am therefore sure that no former Celestia developer turned towards Cosmographia.

But I see a lot of Celestians becoming active at CelestialMatters, which will remain GUARANTEED Star-Trek free! I am preparing just now for the start of public development of celestia.Sci the forum of which will be hosted at CelestialMatters, while the SVN code repository will be at SourceForge.
A competent "celestia.Sci Development Team" has begun to form as well...

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MiR
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Re: Who wants to kill the forum?

Post #7by MiR » 09.04.2013, 12:17

Well, actually I have currently no spare time for Celestia. But all this is annoying me.

jogad wrote:Last news:
Cham is banned and olyv=argelesmer=lodgy is still here.

This is the absolute victory of the trolls of this forum with the help of the administrators.

It is really unbearable and this is my last post in this forum.
Jo?l, please stay!

As much as i know Cham left this forum of his own free will. Not a good decision. i like his work. I enjoy CelestiaMatters.
Especially Fridgers galaxy pictures from Celestia.Sci.

But if you all leave shatters.net, then the trolls would be the winners. This should be clearly obvious for everyone!

Olyv's work don't hurt me. No interest. I really don't see it... I am not very interested of SF addons for MY Celestia.
But i do not hate it ...and some work - Linuxman's 2001, Runar's Ran, and others - are really great! I enjoy it...

By the way: I really miss Reiko and Tim (and others)! I realised: Through all the hate against star trek they retire from this forum.
But they are really good persons with good manners. It's a shame... Bad guys must not be the winners.
But they will be the winners if you all run away - quite vain and selfcentered - from here!

We should be really happy that we have two Celestia-pages!

We should remind ourselves that SF - also star Trek - could be a door-opener for younger people who try to explore the complex
"universe" of the Celestia software. For beginners it is not easy to handle... But much better than wasting time with war games.
And maybe some of those will become good modelers for real spacecrafts someday.

I really think this problem, this annoying trouble could be easily and immediately solved; give the SF-fan their own topic, their own
index (like "Bugs", "Add-on releases",...)!

@Marco:
Marco, Cham ask me some months ago for a Curiosity model. I can convert some models for Celestia.
But I'm still far away from that what a modeler is... Maybe someday...

Fridger wrote:...But I see a lot of Celestians becoming active at CelestialMatters, which will remain GUARANTEED Star-Trek free! I am preparing just now for the start of public development of celestia.Sci the forum of which will be hosted at CelestialMatters, while the SVN code repository will be at SourceForge.
A competent "celestia.Sci Development Team" has begun to form as well...
I am glad and delighted to read this.

But now i have to continue with my own obligations and duties.

I love you all and i apologize for my (quickly written) broken english

Michael

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Hungry4info
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Re: Who wants to kill the forum?

Post #8by Hungry4info » 09.04.2013, 13:25

Bad guys must not be the winners.
Forums are a place for discourse, not a battlefield, and you give the trolls far more credit than they deserve if you think they can somehow accept defeat. They clearly are impervious to the fact that they are unwanted here. I think most people here are here for discourse about Celestia, not for waging a sort of war against other users. The job of the forum staff are to make sure the forum doesn't decay into such anarchy. They have not succeeded.

But they will be the winners if you all run away - quite vain and selfcentered - from here!
I have no ego or pride to defend. They're already vain and self-centred and whether or not we abandon this forum to them, they'll be happy propagating their viral behaviour anyway.

So the options come down to this:
A) Leave this forum to the trolls, who will continue posting their mind-numbing garbage.
B) Stay and deal with the trolls, who will continue posting their mind-numbing garbage.

No matter what we do, the trolls aren't changing. They aren't going to suddenly realise how annoying they are and reform. Sometimes it takes a bigger person to walk away. Many of us are simply tired of them, and how the forum is administered, so we're leaving.

I really think this problem, this annoying trouble could be easily and immediately solved; give the SF-fan their own topic, their own
index (like "Bugs", "Add-on releases",...)!
The problem is that the virus is not so easily contained. They stray away from their dedicated sections and post rude and unproductive comments in threads that have actual content. Furthermore, this doesn't even begin to address the copyright issues, blatant theft of other people's work, and sock puppet accounts.

What would fix it is to either ban the trolls (again...), or restrict the troll's posting rights to one section that no one else can see. They can post to their heart's content and not bother anyone or be noticed.
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fungun
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Re: Who wants to kill the forum?

Post #9by fungun » 09.04.2013, 17:52

By the way: I really miss Reiko and Tim (and others)! I realised: Through all the hate against star trek they retire from this forum.
But they are really good persons with good manners. It's a shame...

I thank you for this, it put a smile on my face.
When all the trolling and Star Trek hating started I just decided, that's it I'm out. Of course I never stopped with my Celestia projects, I just stopped posting about it. (don't like getting bashed for something I really like)
I talk to Reiko every so often, pretty sure she feels the same way.
I jot over to Celestia Matters every once in awhile.

Tim

MiR
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Re: Who wants to kill the forum?

Post #10by MiR » 09.04.2013, 19:32

Hungry4info,

Fora (like shatters or CelestialMatters) are nothing else than a reflection of our world. Look around: The world is full of trolls.
You find them at work, in the office or inside your TV. You can't ban them all. The only thing we can do is to ignore them.

On the other hand... each one see his own trolls... But the worst solution if you meet your troll is to run away :!:

Maybe someday Olyv - our "enfant terrible" - will come and offers a model of Curiosity. Then he will be everybody's Darling...


Tim - I like your attitude :)

Michael

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Hungry4info
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Re: Who wants to kill the forum?

Post #11by Hungry4info » 10.04.2013, 10:23

Star Trek isn't the problem, it's you. If you had bothered to read any of this, you would have known that.
Current Setup:
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AMD Athlon Processor, 1.6 Ghz, 3 Gb RAM
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