Lua Edu Tools beta version

Discuss Celestia's features, adaptations and Addons for use in educational environments
Sui Ota
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Post #21by Sui Ota » 07.11.2006, 07:54

Thank you, Vincent.

1.
The number of characters in the compass string (tools/compassBox.lua) has to remain constant.
So, only one single character can be used for each of the 4 cardinal points.
Could you precise why you need to use 2 or more characters ?
I could try to adapt the code to this special case if this is really a priority...
Because I want to use a 2 byte character for the name of direction, as translation.
"2 or more characters" was an example that causes similar behavior as using 2 byte characters under ASCII...

3.
Worked, to do it.

4.
Problem solved ! The Celestia_edu_1.2.zip file has been updated.
Sorry, I have not let some files updated. I confirmed this is fixed.

6.
This is a really valid point. Azimuth and Elevation could refer to the reference/source object, as I did for Longitude and Latitude...
But I'd like to have other user's opinion here about whether or not we should add another string to the compass box...
OK. I prefer displaying both Az-Elv and Long-Lat, but more opinions seems to be needed. :wink:

7.
Yes, this happens for a fraction of a second, and only during the first display...
That may come from the time needed by the Lua Hook to be interprated by the Celestia Core...
Hank may confirm and possibly do something here... Even if this doesn't appear to be really annoying, does it ?
This seems not to be a serious problem, even it is not needed to be solved, I think :D

8.
That's in my todo list :wink: ... I was first thinking about adding a setting window, as I did for the setting of the Time Zone...
But your idea of adding a line to the LANGUAGE.lua locale file is great !

Thanks. I'm looking forward to implementing this in some form.
-Suι

Sui Ota
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Post #22by Sui Ota » 07.11.2006, 13:19

By the way, I noticed that the behavior of goto-moving is strange compared to current CVS version.
This is not occurred in Edu 1.1.

For example...
Near the Earth, and I select and go to a location on the Earth...

CVS version:
Going to the location, to let both the Earth and the location center of the screen after moving.
I can reach above the locaiton.

Luahook version:
Going directly to the location, sometimes passing inside of the Earth, and sometimes in underground after moving!

Another example...
When going to the Earth from far place, I reach about 25,000 km above the Earth.
I press "G" key again, I can go to about 64 km above (1/100 of the Earth's radius). But I can't do this in Luahook version.

It is awkward :(
-Suι

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Vincent
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Post #23by Vincent » 07.11.2006, 15:19

Sui Ota wrote:By the way, I noticed that the behavior of goto-moving is strange compared to current CVS version.
This is not occurred in Edu 1.1.

For example...
Near the Earth, and I select and go to a location on the Earth...

CVS version:
Going to the location, to let both the Earth and the location center of the screen after moving.
I can reach above the locaiton.

Luahook version:
Going directly to the location, sometimes passing inside of the Earth, and sometimes in underground after moving!

Another example...
When going to the Earth from far place, I reach about 25,000 km above the Earth.
I press "G" key again, I can go to about 64 km above (1/100 of the Earth's radius). But I can't do this in Luahook version.

It is awkward :(
Sui Ota,

I was testing a new function that brings the observer to a distance from selection that makes it fit the screen, for any value of fov. That is particularly useful when the users wants to quit the planetarium mode and select new values of longitude and latitude. That works perfectly for planets, stars, etc..., but unfortunately, not for locations, as you noticed, because their radius is too small.

I can allocate this function to the [shift]+[G] keys, instead of the single [G] key. This way, both the standard 'goto' and the new 'gotoToFit' function will be available...

As for the Az-Elv and Long-Lat values, both can be displayed, as suggested by Jedi. The planetarium mode makes the display switch automatically to Az-Elev, with the possibility to switch back to Long-Lat with a click...

Ramon wrote:Hello Vincent, this is Ramon from Mexico.
Great job on the Celestia EDU.
I just got one question for now: this version of Celestia EDU doesn't have the sound patch? I've already instaled and check out the files and I can't see nothing related with sound.

Ramon,

The current version of Celestia Edu doesn't integrate the sound playback.
I don't know if Hank has got some plans about this...
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Vincent

Celestia Qt4 SVN / Celestia 1.6.1 + Lua Edu Tools v1.2
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Vincent
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Post #24by Vincent » 07.11.2006, 22:28

Hi,

I have tested a new compass :
Image

This new compass has 3 major advantages :
- No more localization problem. Just edit the 4 characters in the compass.png image. A compass.psd file containing all the layers is provided in the 'images' folder.
- The movemement is perfectly smooth.
- It is much more accurate thanks to its circular shape.
Image

I have also made several other changes :
- Added the possibility to switch between the Longitude-Latitude and the Azimuth-Elevation display with a simple click on the string.
- Fixed a bug that occured when the source was centered in planetarium mode.
- Added the new gotoToFit function allocated to the [shift]+[G] keys :
Vincent wrote:a new function that brings the observer to a distance from selection that makes it fit the screen, for any value of fov. That is particularly useful when the users wants to quit the planetarium mode and select new values of longitude and latitude.

- Localized the date : the default mode is "month/day/year", and it is possible to switch to "day/month/year" or "year/month/day" by editing the locale/LANG/LANG.lua.file.

I have updated the Celestia edu zip file :
> http://vincent.gian.club.fr/celestia/Ce ... _1pre3.zip
As usual, just replace the previous 'edu_folder' by the new one in your 'extras' folder.
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Vincent

Celestia Qt4 SVN / Celestia 1.6.1 + Lua Edu Tools v1.2
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Cham M
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Post #25by Cham » 07.11.2006, 22:59

Personally, I don't like much that new compass. The old version was better for my taste. However, I still think it should be hard coded in Celestia's code, and not "added" in a patch or hack form.
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selden
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Post #26by selden » 07.11.2006, 23:22

Cham,

This is not a patch or hack.

It's functionality added to Celestia in a form that, in principle, anyone can change if they don't like it. Making modifications to Celestia by way of Lua only requires that Celestia be installed. Making modifications to Celestia's "kernel" requires that people have a C++ compiler and many non-Celestia libraries and source code files.

Personally, I think that there are many functions currently hard-wired in Celestia's source code that can and should be moved to Lua modules; especially the user input interface, including the keyboard mapping, to pick one example.
Selden

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Chuft-Captain
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Post #27by Chuft-Captain » 08.11.2006, 07:07

Vincent wrote:Localized the date : the default mode is "month/day/year", and it is possible to switch to "day/month/year" or "year/month/day" by editing the locale/LANG/LANG.lua.file.

Just a minor comment Vincent. I think the default date format should be either little-endian or big-endian.
Don't give in to those Yanks and their silly middle-endian date format! :wink:
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Malenfant
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Post #28by Malenfant » 08.11.2006, 07:27

Hm, I'm not sure I like the new compass either, it's less intuitive to interpret. For the other one at least you could rotate round and the compass would follow your field of view, which makes more sense.
My Celestia page: Spica system, planetary magnitudes script, updated demo.cel, Quad system

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Cham M
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Post #29by Cham » 08.11.2006, 07:33

Malenfant wrote:Hm, I'm not sure I like the new compass either, it's less intuitive to interpret. For the other one at least you could rotate round and the compass would follow your field of view, which makes more sense.


I totally agree. And did I said that this should be hard coded in Celestia ? ;-)
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selden
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Post #30by selden » 08.11.2006, 10:33

Some people like it and some people don't.

That is a reason for keeping it coded in Lua.

If you don't like it, you can change it.

If it's hard-coded in Celestia, you're stuck with it.
Selden

Christophe
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Post #31by Christophe » 08.11.2006, 10:48

Seeing how Microsoft just copied almost pixel for pixel GoogleEarth's compass in Virtual Earth, I was thinking of the same kind of compass for Celestia.

Great job Vincent! Maybe you could drop the letters and use an arrow instead that would avoid the localization problem. Displaying the current heading might be a nice addition too.
Christophe

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Vincent
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Post #32by Vincent » 08.11.2006, 12:27

Malenfant wrote:Hm, I'm not sure I like the new compass either, it's less intuitive to interpret. For the other one at least you could rotate round and the compass would follow your field of view, which makes more sense.
Malenfant, Cham

I don't really agree with you on this point. Besides all the other advantages, I think that the new version is also more accurate. Indeed, the horizontal display is only accurate for the main central direction. The other directions are not pointed correctly since they're displayed in a linear way, whereas they should follow the curve of the observer's field of view...

Anyway, as suggested by Selden (and ElChristou), I can provide both versions, and users will be able to use whatever version they want by simply editing the toolset.lua file. Just comment in the desired version, and comment out the other one:

Code: Select all

toolset = {
   "timeBox",
   "measureBox",
   "textBox",
   "imageBox",
   "lightBox",
   "compassBox",
   --"compassBox2",
}


Chuft-Captain wrote:Just a minor comment Vincent. I think the default date format should be either little-endian or big-endian.
Don't give in to those Yanks and their silly middle-endian date format! :wink:
CC,

As you suggested, I first wanted to set the standard format to little-endian (day/month/year). But that would have required a 'en.lua' localization file to be added to give the possibility to native english users to use the middle-endian date format (month/day/year).
But if a majority of native english users also want to use the little-endian format (day/month/year), I will set it as the default one...

Christophe wrote:Great job Vincent! Maybe you could drop the letters and use an arrow instead that would avoid the localization problem. Displaying the current heading might be a nice addition too.

Thanks Christophe. The problem with arrows is that primary school pupils (and maybe older ones...) don't know the relative position of the different cardinal points. Visualizing the 4th directions make things much easier for them...
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Vincent

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Malenfant
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Post #33by Malenfant » 08.11.2006, 15:25

Vincent wrote:
Malenfant wrote:Hm, I'm not sure I like the new compass either, it's less intuitive to interpret. For the other one at least you could rotate round and the compass would follow your field of view, which makes more sense.
Malenfant, Cham

I don't really agree with you on this point. Besides all the other advantages, I think that the new version is also more accurate. Indeed, the horizontal display is only accurate for the main central direction. The other directions are not pointed correctly since they're displayed in a linear way, whereas they should follow the curve of the observer's field of view...


If you're going to stick with it I would suggest adding an actual pointer or marker or compass needle to show which direction you're looking toward.
My Celestia page: Spica system, planetary magnitudes script, updated demo.cel, Quad system

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Vincent
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Post #34by Vincent » 08.11.2006, 17:50

Malenfant wrote:If you're going to stick with it I would suggest adding an actual pointer or marker or compass needle to show which direction you're looking toward.

Do you mean something like this ?

Image
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Vincent

Celestia Qt4 SVN / Celestia 1.6.1 + Lua Edu Tools v1.2
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Malenfant
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Post #35by Malenfant » 08.11.2006, 17:54

Kinda...

The main problem is that using a wheel really makes no intuitive sense - the compass wheel on the screen is oriented perpendicular to the ground, and compasses simply don't work like that. The method you had before does make intuitive sense, because as you're standing on the ground and turning around, the compass should indicate which direction you're pointing it.
My Celestia page: Spica system, planetary magnitudes script, updated demo.cel, Quad system

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Vincent
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Post #36by Vincent » 08.11.2006, 18:44

Malenfant wrote:Kinda...
The main problem is that using a wheel really makes no intuitive sense - the compass wheel on the screen is oriented perpendicular to the ground, and compasses simply don't work like that. The method you had before does make intuitive sense, because as you're standing on the ground and turning around, the compass should indicate which direction you're pointing it.


Of course, I agree with you on that point, like everybody does, I think.
But to my mind, the advantages of the second compass are indisputable...
In french, I would say that is is much more "credible"... :wink:
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Vincent

Celestia Qt4 SVN / Celestia 1.6.1 + Lua Edu Tools v1.2
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Malenfant
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Post #37by Malenfant » 08.11.2006, 19:09

Vincent wrote:But to my mind, the advantages of the second compass are indisputable...
In french, I would say that is is much more "credible"... :wink:


The advantages aren't clear to me at all. It takes up more vertical space on the screen and is less intuitive to use and is harder to interpret than what you had before.
My Celestia page: Spica system, planetary magnitudes script, updated demo.cel, Quad system

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Vincent
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Post #38by Vincent » 08.11.2006, 19:28

Well, I think this is definitely a question of personal taste.
So I will only repeat myself :

Vincent wrote:Anyway, as suggested by Selden (and ElChristou), I can provide both versions, and users will be able to use whatever version they want by simply editing the toolset.lua file. Just comment in the desired version, and comment out the other one:

Code: Select all

toolset = {
   "timeBox",
   "measureBox",
   "textBox",
   "imageBox",
   "lightBox",
   "compassBox",
   --"compassBox2",
}


Malenfant, I think this is fair enough, isn't it ? :wink:
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Vincent

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Malenfant
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Post #39by Malenfant » 08.11.2006, 20:03

Vincent wrote:Malenfant, I think this is fair enough, isn't it ? :wink:


Sure, that's fine, no problem with that - I was just curious to hear what you think the advantages of the circular compass are over the one you had before.
My Celestia page: Spica system, planetary magnitudes script, updated demo.cel, Quad system

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Vincent
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Post #40by Vincent » 08.11.2006, 20:18

Malenfant wrote:
Vincent wrote:Malenfant, I think this is fair enough, isn't it ? :wink:

Sure, that's fine, no problem with that - I was just curious to hear what you think the advantages of the circular compass are over the one you had before.


Well, the arguments I've already pointed sound pretty convicing to me:
- The movement of the 2nd version is perfectly smooth whereas the quality of the "scrolling" is not that good in the 1st version.
- The localization for languages that use 2 bytes characters is very hard to implement in v1. It can be done in 5 minutes with v2.
- The pointed directions are accurate only for the central character in the 1st version, whereas the circular shape of the 2nd version respects the curve of the observer's view in reality.
- From an educational point of view (don't forget I'm a teacher :wink: ), the 2nd version allows to visualize together the four cardinal points. That is not possible in v1.
Last edited by Vincent on 08.11.2006, 22:16, edited 2 times in total.
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